Full Version: Script writing programsFrom: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 29 May 1:36To: ALL

Do any of the pros on here advocate the use of programs like Final Draft, Movie Magic, Sophocles etc. to use during comic scripting or are they an unneccessary expense?

Cheers in advance for your views.

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From: Warren Ellis (WARRENELLIS) [#2] 29 May 3:36To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 29 May 3:52

I think Bendis uses Final Draft for everything.I would strongly advise using any old word processing program.(I use Word and save everything as RTF.)

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From: Elliot Mears (ELLIOTMEARS) [#3] 29 May 6:10To: ALL

It is my understanding that Mark Millar scrawls all his scripts in pig blood on tremendous reams of bog paper and mails them in the form of threatening letters to the Home Secretary.

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From: Tony Lee (TONYLEE) [#4] 29 May 6:18To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 29 May 10:36

I can write a script in any old word processing format.

I PREFER to use Final Draft.

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From: A. Dave Lewis (ADLEWIS) [#5] 29 May 6:47To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 29 May 10:36

I played around for a while with some MS Word Templates, but I gave up on those a long while ago before updating became an issue.Since then, I largely just script in my own format, I guess. It works well enough for me, with little confusion for my collaborator-artists. Samples can be found here (with the exception of "Vaya Con Dios," my experimenting in the movie-script format).All in all, I find script writing programs unnecessary. If anything, they're stifling, you know?

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From: Tina (TINA_ANDERSON) [#6] 29 May 7:22To: ALL

One word - Celtx.http://celtx.com/

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From: Andy Diggle (ANDYDIGGLE) [#7] 29 May 8:05To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 29 May 10:36

I use Final Draft, although I'm curious about Scrivener.

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From: Jonathan Hickman (JHICKMAN) [#8] 29 May 9:10To: Andy Diggle (ANDYDIGGLE) [#7] 29 May 9:36

Huh. That looks pretty cool. Have you given it a test drive yet?

I use FDraft now, and I can write a script with it twice as fast as Word simply because I can't type all that well.

Fuck it - 30 day trial... why not.

Thanks for the heads up!

/

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From: Joseph_OBrien [#9] 29 May 9:30To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 29 May 10:36

I've been using Final Draft since version 4 and I've never looked back.

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From: Joseph_OBrien [#10] 29 May 9:33To: Andy Diggle (ANDYDIGGLE) [#7] 29 May 9:36

I'd get Scrivener for the corkboard feature alone . . . but it looks like it's a Mac-only thing.

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From: Andy Diggle (ANDYDIGGLE) [#11] 29 May 9:37To: Jonathan Hickman (JHICKMAN) [#8] 29 May 10:26

I haven't tried Scrivener yet, but Colin Wilson recommended it.

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From: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#12] 29 May 11:17To: ALL

So basically the programs are time savers rather than valuable tools that will aid the creative process?

My big, chubby, keyboard-mashing fingers might benefit then...

Thanks again for the input.

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From: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#13] 29 May 13:48To: Andy Diggle (ANDYDIGGLE) [#7] 29 May 23:37

was it you that had the word template to do all the formatting? i remember there was talk about this a year or so again, but i don't rememeber who'd set the template up.

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From: Leandro.Damasceno (LDAMASCENO) [#14] 29 May 16:24To: Tina (TINA_ANDERSON) [#6] 30 May 12:40

I second you. CELTX!http://www.celtx.com

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From: Bill (BILL_WILLIAMS) [#15] 29 May 18:15To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 30 May 0:22

I use Movie Magic for screenplays and love it. I hear that there are addons for writing comic book scripts. Those guys have set up at the SDCC the last couple of years.

I use Lotus Word Pro for the rest but have to translate to .rtf files for every other single person in the free world.

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From: I am not a number! (JENSHALTMANN) [#16] 29 May 23:34To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 30 May 0:22

There are also some free scriptwriting programs out there. I haven't gotten around to trying them yet (I too still use Word, simply because I'm used to it), but you may want to give them a look before spending money.

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From: Tony Lee (TONYLEE) [#17] 29 May 23:37To: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#13] 30 May 5:14

I think Andy had the FD template, because it's the one I got off him a couple of years back.

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From: Andy Diggle (ANDYDIGGLE) [#18] 29 May 23:47To: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#13] 30 May 5:14

Yeah, you can still find it here - although I've since switched to pretty much standard screenplay format myself (Courier 12, lowercase dialogue etc).

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From: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#19] 30 May 5:15To: Andy Diggle (ANDYDIGGLE) [#18] 30 May 11:18

ah, it's an FD template. i thought it was a word template.

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From: Dave Gibbons (GIBBONS90) [#20] 30 May 5:34To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 30 May 6:26

I've used Final Draft but I keep coming back to Word. I've created "styles" that mimic the paragraph formats and switching that FD uses and made a custom toolbar for them, which is very useful.

Word also has the "autocorrect" feature that means not only character names but oft-used phrases like "in the foreground" or "off panel" can be typed in just a couple of keystrokes.

Scrivener's corkboard feature sounds handy, though. I'll give it a try...

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From: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#21] 30 May 7:57To: Dave Gibbons (GIBBONS90) [#20] 30 May 8:15

how do you do this ms word magic, dave gibbons?!

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From: Chip (CHIP_MOSHER) [#22] 30 May 8:09To: ALL

I use Final Draft...but hey what do I know since I've gotten one comic under my belt. In my other life, I interact with the FD guys a bit and they are all pretty cool people. (Full disclosure - my screenwriting wife is in their next ad campaign.) This gave me a chance to talk to them about putting more comic writing features in FD...I was told it was something that they had looked into but because the market was limited that they did not pursue. I looked at the comic template in MovieMagic - but it crashed on my machine too many times.

Chip

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From: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#23] 30 May 8:25To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 30 May 13:58

For comics scripting, a scripting program is unnecessary. Depending on which script format you use - there is no standard - if you use Word or OpenOffice's equivalent, you can easily slam together macros to do all the necessary formatting.If you're writing screenplays, Final Draft is the standard. I know there are free equivalents like Celtx, but you're

going to run into producers who will believe you're annoyingly unprofessional because you're not using the real thing.Word is arguably preferable for comics simply because of compatibility. Virtually every artist or writer you'll have to deal with will have access to a copy of Word, or some program that can read word. That won't be true of Final Draft. If you use Final Draft, you'll often have to print out your script (a timewasting pain in these days of email), save it as an RTF file, which almost always eats at least some part of the formatting, or turn your script into a PDF, which many editors, it seems, just don't know how to open.Overall I'd suggest sticking with Word and generating your own macros to cover formatting.- Grant

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From: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#24] 30 May 8:27To: Andy Diggle (ANDYDIGGLE) [#7] 30 May 11:18

Eh.It's a decent program, but it doesn't do anything that can't be done with Word. Unless you hate Microsoft, there's no real reason for it.- Grant

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From: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#25] 30 May 8:29To: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#24] 30 May 8:29

that's not enough reason? :)i would dump all my MS programs, if i could. they open security holes into macs...

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From: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#26] 30 May 8:29To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#12] 30 May 13:58

It's my general experience that there's virtually no program that "aids the creative experience." They lighten a little of the drudge work, but the creative experience is all up to you.(I remember when I used to look at screenwriting magazines they'd always advertise programs that would supposedly generate millions of brand new story ideas. Uh-huh...)- Grant

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From: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#27] 30 May 8:37To: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#21] 30 May 8:37

If you go to Tools>Autocorrect Options on the menu bar, you can input customized autocorrect combinations. If you want, say,in the foregroundto be insertable anywhere while typing, you putitfin the replace box, andin the foregroundin the with box. You can also format the replacement text if you choose. Hit okay, close out the dialogue box.Then when you type itf in the course of your work, when you move on to the next word, Word will automatically change it to in the foreground.You don't want to make "if" your replaceable word because it'll change to in the foreground anytime you use the word, so that, sayIf I fell in love with youwould becomeIn the foreground I fell in love with youevery time. You want to make your replaceable "words" letter combinations that aren't likely to come up as a discreet combination while writing the English language.- Grant

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From: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#28] 30 May 8:42To: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#25] 30 May 8:43

I don't use a Mac, and while I can understand people not feeling kindly toward Microsoft, it's not enough reason to cut off your nose to spite your face, no.I do use Final Draft for screenplays. But I use Word for pretty much everything else. It really does have top notch formatting capabilities if you learn how to use them, and it's pretty much ubiquitous in the professional world.I'm aware that they're always finding security holes in MS products, but does anyone know anyone

who's actually been clipped by one?- Grant

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From: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#29] 30 May 8:44To: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#28] 30 May 8:45

yeah, i was clipped. on my last laptop.

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From: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#30] 30 May 8:56To: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#29] 30 May 9:03

Details, man! Let's hear the whole gory story. What happened?- Grant

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From: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#31] 30 May 9:08To: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#30] 30 May 9:22

oh god, it was a couple years ago, my tattered recollection wouldn't really help as reference. i remember it took me literally weeks to track it down, i was having virus-like symtoms and i went on a spree buying anti-virus, which didn't find anything. in the end it turned out the thing was living in MS entourage.

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From: Chip (CHIP_MOSHER) [#32] 30 May 10:15To: ivan brandon

(IVAN) [#31] 30 May 10:16

Sounds like a macro virus....

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From: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#33] 30 May 10:16To: Chip (CHIP_MOSHER) [#32] 30 May 10:17

that sounds right.

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From: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#34] 30 May 10:42To: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#31] 30 May 10:56

What's Entourage? That something for the Mac?- Grant

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From: Drew Bell (DROOB) [#35] 30 May 10:43To: ALL

If you're a TextMate user, you should check out this screenwriting bundle. You only have to worry about the plaintext, and it can convert to and from Final Draft formats. Watch the video tutorials!

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From: Aditantimedh [#36] 30 May 10:55To: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#31] 30 May 10:56

You're making me glad the only piece of Windows software I use on my Mac is Word.

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From: Donal Murphy (DONAL_MURPHY) [#37] 30 May 10:58To: ALL

I recommend Scrivener if you're a Mac user. At $35 it's a steal. Great for collating research too.

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From: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#38] 30 May 11:03To: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#34] 30 May 11:05

yeah, it's office's higher-end mail program... but the macro viruses were transmitted through any ms client to any other ms client, cross-platform (i've been googling today).outlook express is succeptible to the same thing, but supposedly the newer macs (os x) are immune, although i'm not anxious to test that theory, so i don't use MS mail clients anymore. i still use word, though, hence my initial comment.

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From: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#39] 30 May 11:08To: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#38] 30 May 11:09

Yeah, I don't use Outlook Express. The modern version of Outlook is a much better program, and it's easy enough to dump unwanted messages without having to open them. But don't you have an antivirus program? Mine (Avast, free at www.avast.com) integrates with Outlook and clocks anything suspicious immediately. Works with macros too.- Grant

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From: Steven Huls (STEVENHULS) [#40] 30 May 11:15To: ALL

A big "me too" on Avast!, I love that program.

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From: Andy Diggle (ANDYDIGGLE) [#41] 30 May 11:23To: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#19] 30 May 11:35

Sorry, yeah, my bad.

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From: Andy Diggle (ANDYDIGGLE) [#42] 30 May 11:48To: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#23] 30 May 12:56

If you use Final Draft, you'll often have to print out your script (a timewasting pain in these days of email), save it as an RTF file, which almost always eats at least some part of the formatting, or turn your script into a PDF, which many editors, it seems, just don't know how to open.Every comic script I write in FD I just "Save As RTF" with no problems at all. And the editors send me the lettering as PDF files, so no worries there either.I'm not saying FD is the be-all and end-all, but I do find that the one neuron I'd otherwise waste thinking about formatting is now one extra neutron I can use trying to be creative.This auto-correct thing in Word sounds interesting, though, as I'm always making the same transposition typos. I wonder if there's an autocorrect macro feature in FD...*Googles*Hey, there is! :)

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From: Marcio Massula Jr. (MARCIO_MASSULA) [#43] 30 May 12:04To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 30 May 14:01

I'm not exactly a pro, but as sometimes I write comics, well, here go my two cents.

I don't decide between Celtx and Word yet, and continue using both.

Word (or another strong text editor like OOWriter or Abiword) is good cause have a lot o features wich the regular script editors doesn't, and also give the possibility of create templates and macros to automate the typing side of the work.

But, I like Celtx cause the formating thing, of course, and also cause inside it is possible create an entire project, wich give the possibility to maintain all the information about the story at the same place (or the window, in this case).

Here are two shots of my scripts (in Brazilian Portuguese), one writen in MS Word and another (of the same character) writen in Celtx.

Word:

http://flickr.com/photos/oroboro/346089327

Celtx:

http://flickr.com/photos/oroboro/346089335

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From: Hubert Motley Jr (GROONK) [#44] 30 May 12:07To: Tina (TINA_ANDERSON) [#6] 30 May 18:59

that's what i use. it's a winful bit of free, it is.

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From: StrangerDan (DANEVANSIII) [#45] 30 May 12:37To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 30 May 14:01

If you wanna work in TV you HAVE to use final Draft or something compatible.

Antony and I write Texas Strangers in Final draft because it has an easy peasy colloboration widget.

but for comic writing I am not sure why you would have to use anything other than a regular word processor.

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From: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#46] 30 May 12:59To: Andy Diggle (ANDYDIGGLE) [#42] 30 May 13:07

The main virtue of FD is auto-filling names in the character position, but even that can be a pain under certain circumstances.If you've got FD and like it, more power to you. I just wouldn't recommend anyone get it to write comics with.Saving to RTF from any program doesn't always screw up formatting, but I've had it happen to me enough times that I find trusting it difficult.- Grant

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From: Frank Beaton (FBEATON) [#47] 30 May 13:26To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 30 May 14:01

I use Final Draft 6 for all my comic scripts. I created a custom template, but it's not dramatically different from the stock screenplay one -- just a few little adjustments. I tried upgrading to FD7, but downgraded almost immediately once I saw that they'd gotten rid of the old Scene Navigator feature (which I use constantly) and replaced it with something called Index Card Mode -- which is like Scene

Navigator, except completely useless.

Stephen's right, of course; these programs are just labor-saving devices and certainly won't make anyone a better writer, but I do find FD makes writing dialogue feel a little more... I dunno, organic? It's easier to keep that sort of lost-in-the-scene momentum going when you don't have to pause between every line to type out a character's name for the 400th time. Plus, I'm not really into the whole ritual of hand-formatting a script before sending it out. I'd rather let a kindly robot handle that shit for me.

As far as file format goes, I make two copies of the completed script: a PDF for the editor and artist, and an RTF for the letterer (with panel descriptions removed).

(Also -- and you didn't hear this from me -- there are ways to get these kinds of things for free, if you're really worried about the expense. I'm not recommending anything specific, so let's just say it rhymes with "Shit Warrant.")

-f.

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From: Yann Krehl (Y_KREHL) [#48] 30 May 14:09To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 31 May 1:03

I use Word.The format I write in is so simple that any word processing program that allows me to make text bold or underline it would do. But being able to spell check, track changes and insert tags (if that's what that feature is called in the English version) makes writing much more comfortable.

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From: smmullis [#49] 30 May 14:27To: Patrick Tkaczynski (PJTKACZYNSKI) [#1] 31 May 1:03

CELTXFree, open-source media production program that includes

storyboarding, scheduling, scriptwriting, etc. It even exports to .PDF, all for free.Enjoy.

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From: Jason A. Quest (JAQ) [#50] 30 May 14:56To: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#23] 30 May 15:01

quote:Word is arguably preferable for comics simply because of compatibility. Virtually every artist or writer you'll have to deal with will have access to a copy of Word, or some program that can read word.Unless you're using the new-fangled MS Word 2007. That has a new .DOCX file format that very few programs (including earlier versions of MS Word) can read. Of course you can still "save as" to ye olde .DOC format or .RTF with Word 2007, but it won't do that by default.

I use OpenOffice for a different kind of compatibility: I've got it installed on my home Mac, my work-office WinXP PC, and my geeky boyfriend's Linux system, so I can just plug my USB drive into whichever box I'm sitting in front of; it runs on everything. (And since it's Free, if I find myself on some other machine without it, I can just download it.) I've never had any problems opening other people's Word documents with it either. Whatever one's reason for wanting to ditch MS Office - security, reliability, disliking MS, or not wanting to relearn how to use Word with version 2007 - OpenOffice and NeoOffice (the Mac version) are a great alternative. It even has some tricks (e.g. direct export to PDF) that MS Office doesn't do.

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From: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#51] 30 May 15:06To: Jason A. Quest (JAQ) [#50] 30 May 15:25

I agree: Open Office is a fine alternative to Word as long as you don't need Word's more advanced formatting and markup capabilities, and most people don't. I haven't bothered upgrading to Office '07 - still on '03 - or Vista, I figure it's worth waiting for MS to backtrack due to complaints and expand functionality to acceptable levels first. But you

almost always have to do that when MS releases a new product. It's this little song and dance they're obsessed with: they start out by trying to mold buyers into their ideal users, and they end by molding the products into what their customers can actually use.But they're smart, I figure it won't take them more than another 25 or 30 years to figure out they might as well just go for what the customers want first.- Grant

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From: Frank Beaton (FBEATON) [#52] 30 May 15:54To: Steven Grant (OBVIOUS1) [#51] 30 May 15:58

>>I haven't bothered upgrading to Office '07 - still on '03<<I'm still using Word 2000, although I don't fire it up very often. Only for long prose pieces, really. I do all my scripting in Final Draft and everything else in CopyWriter, which is an excellent little freeware RTF editor and the footprint is roughly the same as WordPad.-f.

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From: Paul Salvi (PAULSALVI) [#53] 30 May 16:25To: ALL

I use Final Draft for format-heavy stuff and TextEdit (Mac) for the rest.

I've sampled other scriptwriting programs but none made ditching FD and getting used to something new seem worth the hassle.

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From: Chip (CHIP_MOSHER) [#54] 30 May 17:38To: ALL

At the day job we use this application - which does the same thing as the auto-correct function in Word, but everywhere you type:

http://www.smileonmymac.com/textexpander/It's for the Mac and I have yet to integrate it in my FD workflow - but I am going to experiment with some things before I jump into my next script. It's a nifty app for pretty much any repetitive writing.

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From: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#55] 30 May 18:30To: ALL

am experimenting with scrivener... so far it does everything i'd need.

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From: John Rogers (JONROG1) [#56] 30 May 22:00To: ALL

I use Screenwriter, but thats what I use for everything else. I also write in script format. For what it's worth, the scripts other writers send me to look at are barely "formatted", just have double-spaces between dialogue blocks.

Scrivener is useful for what its useful for, but I'm not nuts about its export functions. And its screenwriting abilities are pretty rough.

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From: Dave Gibbons (GIBBONS90) [#57] 31 May 0:37To: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#21] 31 May 5:25

how do you do this ms word magic, dave gibbons?!I find reading the manual helps.<G>If you look under "creating styles" and "customizing toolbars" in the online help, a bright boy like you should soon figure it out. And, frankly, it'd take me half an hour of clicking around to remember and explain what I did!I do remember that opening an RTF

version of an FD file is a good way to get the paragraph styles there to begin with...

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From: Tony Lee (TONYLEE) [#58] 31 May 5:18To: ALL

Being an absolute Word Luddite, does anyone have one of these Word templates that has these macro shortcut thingies?

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From: ivan brandon (IVAN) [#59] 31 May 5:26To: Dave Gibbons (GIBBONS90) [#57] 31 May 5:52

YOURS HAS A MANUAL?!

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From: Marcio Massula Jr. (MARCIO_MASSULA) [#60] 31 May 6:01To: Tony Lee (TONYLEE) [#58] 31 May 6:11

quote:Being an absolute Word Luddite, does anyone have one of these Word templates that has these macro shortcut thingies?

The BBC Writer's Room have two good options of Script Smart (Gold, US & UK versions) wich contains features for comics

http://www.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/scriptsmart/downloads.shtml

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From: Tony Lee (TONYLEE) [#61] 31 May 6:11To: Marcio Massula Jr. (MARCIO_MASSULA) [#60] 31 May 6:15

Is scriptsmart Word then?

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From: Marcio Massula Jr. (MARCIO_MASSULA) [#62] 31 May 6:26To: Tony Lee (TONYLEE) [#61] 31 May 6:31

Yep!

Exist a lot of Word templates for free in internet, but a think this two are so good.

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From: Dave Gibbons (GIBBONS90) [#63] 31 May 7:03To: Tony Lee (TONYLEE) [#58] 31 May 7:05

Being an absolute Word Luddite, does anyone have one of these Word templates that has these macro shortcut thingies?I sent this to Tony privately, but I've figured a way to share with the rest of you. Now you can all buy me a beer...http://www.mediafire.com/?7mf1xyw1dxz

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From: Shay Brog (TELECART) [#64] 31 May 15:57To: ALL

Not a professional writer here, however...

I've recently started learning LaTeX (well, LyX, actually). Rumor has it that once you're well-versed in it, WYSIWYM may actually be faster than WYSIWYG.

Personally I use Mellel on my mac (which I highly recommend over both MS Word and Open NeoOffice for that platform) and (sadly) MS Word on my PC.

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From: Joseph_OBrien [#65] 31 May 16:14To: Dave Gibbons (GIBBONS90) [#63] 1 Jun 0:50

Thanks so much for this. I usually write comics in Final Draft, but I'm definitely going to give it this a spin. Cheers!

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