13462 COMMONS DEB,\TilS NO\-embc:r 30. 1981

N•lional a-"'" Counril Ntt..,l Se I-u4 EnPnwi11c ll~_,.,. c-..:il

Pllouae A~h<)Miu

Atbllli<' Pllm_,. " • '"'''"')' b urcnti,.. l'!l(lt~ A• thurity Qmn U.tu f'&u~ .\~tbotit}' P.-~'irc f'ilotl11~ Authorhy

Ste~~tc C(lll..:il d O.n~ Social Seltflm al\d Huno•nitilf

Jlf.f(ll~ C'ouncll Suadaf'lk <Aun~ ol O.ntda

T~C'an&41o ur .. .-.c. • .lb l.imito4

C'ASH PA YMf;tv"J'S TO ~M'I'tOYiiF.S

Que.uion N(). J,l96- Mr. H~n: I. 'Wall rtf~IK:t to tile ,.,.._, ' " q .. :stOon -o. l, 7&9, .,.,...,, ;. U.c t..•lf. <d tl~~::

"''""lation or filii: ~ ""' '_," ... ""'~ io ,._ ,....,;_ ~ po}'· medt ~ kllltl! o::.o,. ate not ..... to tl!f ~ooincial hutltllo autlloriti.?

2. In t~ hut '""' lof -~ tbe laforaJdon is I'JaiLitft. b)' ~. wbl l ii'IOI.Int ,.IU p.:eld 1.0 the flrflWino:W ll«~ltto autll<>titie$ lit lteW!tlts alld '#liNt '",."'"' '"11' .,.;.t<~~ml, tu po:~bli;- trr~1nt• in tlw form W t11Jb ~}'mcnllf

Mr. Notman Ktlly ( Pa.rti ... letttary Se«etary IG Prt&Mie•t ()I thr Trcuur)' Beml}: I. Employees and pct~siooen. of the f<Xkr~l p•ctnrocnt rc«ive a benefit from the aovcrnment t.li empiO)>et io respect of tbe eo« ~( tbe ~ah.h eate plan ift tbc:ir mp«:tivc pcovin«:S qf resiOerKe.

la those provincel "'·bic-h do ~ levy provibeial bealth: insur•Ree prcmhum. tbc emplo)-e-r tootributioos are based ()rll

th.c::·t:S'timau:d per c;rpita oc,.ts, for each individ~~£1 PfOYince, for ~ IKallb g:ue S«Yltt::l hr.Htr~d ulllkr the pr.win<:lal pla.Bs. aM funded by the federal g()vtrnmcnc aDd the ptUVlnocs..

Jn Onw.rio, British Columbia, AlbetUI ~nd tbe Yu.koo tetri­tory, po1,r1 of tbc empfoy~;;t's c:ootri~M!tion may be mndc by direct ca~b payments to emplcJ)'CCS whc:IM!VCJ tlle premium h less tbal'l the employer's contribution based Oft provi~J per capita oast or health <::!re.

2. The IO"'<::rnmenfs totaJ C:Jtpenditurc. by pr<Winoe. ror­rac;rl year 1980.81 in fel:ij)CCt W' ttl i$ bet_~efit prog~m (includ­ing <:Ontt!buti<IIU made toUr 011 bdurJf ot e:m pk>yets, members of the Armed Forces and RCMP, aod peos.lo~). was a10 follows:

0 11111tio 8rinslo ColuftlllU A~nl ¥11kl.lfo lcrrit(lfJ

""~"\)•lldt.cnd I' .I~. I . NO.'iiS:(IIhl Ne• !lr .. -ieto Qoobu Muoi!01lo,

G .. !tilwlions N id difo:t .o ,......hoci~l &-vthoriti4t in l"~mit.~~n>ICA')i"ll!f'OYl~"'fl

SaJgwhor•..tll Nortii..OI1 ·::t~'>lll~ On;ar.o J)rititlo ~ .. mt.U Alb:<ta Yu\® T«tit«)·

SXPIWSfl'ACCOVNTS fOR OEVIR¥ bii i :CJST6-R.<;.

Qttc:ttion No. ),2,)4-Mr. Co&!lht: t. Wlh~ """' lht t'lll<> t u6 ~!.1tit11U )l: fUIIIIill$ 10 txptfl'oe • OX\I(l'l$ Of

o.r.<••«~ a • 1'4,.,.,.,, "•M·,. ;"""'"" ny 4!'J!'I\Y ~ ,.ltd kill$ ~Id rot ft<~~tt p~IIQc furtb?

1 Ne 111~ IJ-Iil:ldintt htid ~qo,. .. for okpat' ~~ i•• cloi:r. tCV"'-•IId (a) it '•. ,...-fit •~ tl~r (b) f( N(. for ..,hft f'W,()fl!

J. Dllell.be 1'l"Y.-cottl-.e(ll !nt~ 1o>.tn.•!li" tl;l<!ll .:vl&l:nu ud (11) if IIQII, ror ~~~<&:l ttU~,.o~~ ~~~~ d .. o:r

Mt. No.nnaa Kti)J (Patlb:.Delllatj Sett't!aty te Preshf•ltt ol tiK 'J'Tf';l!IU')' Bo.R): I. Expenses of a perwMI natu.rc incturtd by dep~;ty m.in.istet.i whio:b ate tiOt the dit«t result of ;;~ pr(lgram requirement ar<: 001 rcimbur:c:ablc: from public funds.

2 "{~ spe.~ffic g:uic!el'no::a 3t-e !aid down f« deputy c.tinisters in tbi< rqerd; )JQ•·evtr, V'\l_riti\Jli -adminirl~thc: p:l{icie$ t:nunei· att: tult$ 3r..d uguJaCOI!:I witb respctt 10 tu.vcl, mrn:bc:rship l'ttU, {t&,-N.::.l:ty 21nd ~t<>e;~tion. i~ Jl<'ltidC$ C:1it:lbllsll adtnCI· sib~ .:.1131#~ and ti:nitati«'t$ wit~ !~t to t be <:: ~pe11diturc ot J'llbl~ hau5a to!' program reasoru il!; <:acb eatcJ,Ory, and •re .Ap(llit:abl:=. ( •J all pu.bl:c J.tl;rv.a!ILt.

). Tbc cJrrem il•idelioes u soci;Hed ,..·itb ach pll.t1icul3r tQ.ky 11-tt: <»n:iiderM atStQo.~;He; :1 . ., g:::we.'!lmMt ~l DOt tr.t(/1:.1 I > l"t:+-clop ;J:'!Xif'"' ru.lu ;a·d rqubtklns pert:!!lning ~;r.~wivclr to d~ty mi!lim~.

[£11!f!Okj Mr. $~ith: 1 .,.,.« JH (ltk. , M~d:u'll £:pealc.tt, thal the n:m•in·

iDi •"\'e~.i'llt! be t!IQ,...'ei trt.$-'l~ nd.

1\iidl 'lt'. g~l!Ji.(>l'! Tbt q•J«tioo? enumerated by tbt- P~~r1~·

m::n~olt:f f':'l'rc!Jit)• h;oV!! ~ ~;tf"ll't!:"!.d. Sbatl tbe renuining t< l•t>;·:Ms stc nrl?

GQV.l'RNME.NT ORDERS

'fFJZ <.:'O~.l5TCUTION ki!S',)Ll1rt01.~ :ttsl'iCI'I!<-'OC<H:SiiTLTriQN A(.l , l~t

Tht HliU!o~ r!!$u.r~r&t, f 1'0M Ftichy. November 27, ~leer• $ ih:!l ... , clt~ U olende~ t")(l'l!-( 1 rt" Mr. Chritlen:

Trli \T, WBCRE.t.ft .tt ;te .,•w o.:."f11rt. •• menchNnt!. :o ~~ C'oh>li:utt.ln .tr rtt;ll.lla t~~te l:<:tn )W• • .' fJ1 'il~ fatU.t.'l'lc~ .lf tt<t lini-t~ Kingl;,t: o.t the r~:.ut 3JHI \)itli the c..'\\IUutli ofQlr,;\Jtt: 5

AND WH~RHAS it h ln a001lm with tt-t:; sta tus of CsORlb as M indef)elldrtAI t.t a1c that Can:adinna be able IC srnen;f thtir CI'M'· ,_tituti<m in Cacada in aU respects;

AND WHHR£AS il lt: t.lKI desim'ole to 10 provide in the Gomtit utlolt ot' Canad~ (Oit the •·rcosnition cf cett&in fundamental riSht$ a.cd freedoml> end to mak~ other ametld• menw to tha:. C.;l'lstitab•M;

T7u> Conultutlon

CONSIDERANT : que le Parlement du Royaume--Uni a moclifi6 i plu.sieurs reprises la Constitution du Canada A la demande tt aYec: Je consen· u:ment de celui-ci; 5

Q!JC, dt: pa.r le statut d'Etat i.ndCpendant du C'.aoada. il est ICgitime que les Ca.nadiens aient toot pouvoir pour modifier leur Constitution au Canada:

qu'il at souhaiu.ble d'ins.:.rire dans la 10 Con!ltitution du Canada la rcconnai3sa:nce de certain.s droits et libett6$ fondamentaux et d'y apporttr d':autres modifkations,

A r<:specrlut a~:hcs<> be pre9e:n~ to H~r t 5 11 est propose que soit prC:scntee respectueu· Majesty I~ f"t-'!tn in the !c.llQY!i"A \"(l.J'Ii~: ~ement & Sa M '\jest~ la Reinc l'adl'tsse dont 15

l~ teneur suit :

To the Queen's Most BxceUe.nt Maj est)': M~t Gracious. SI)Vtrei£n:

A Sa l'rCs Exccllcnte Majc$tC la Reine, Tres Gracioose Souveraioe:

W~:, Your Majesty:S loyal subJCCI'$. tlv: Nows. membrcs de la Chambrt des eom· House of Commons of Canada i(l P ;uli-:un ent:20 rounell duCanada r~unjsen Parlemcnt, fid~les20 ass.:mbJcod, r<:spectfuUy approaci1 Your sujetll de Votrt Majeste, demandons respec-MajetlY, tt-ql e-.stina that you may St.BC!ousty (Utuse-nwnt A Votre T~s Gnckuse Majcst~de be pleased I>> c.aulle to bt laid b:fur~ tbe bien vouloir(.ilin: dCposer devant le ParJement Parliament oft he United Kiogc!om a measure du Royaume-Uni un proje1 de loi aimi con~u : containing tll~ teci1ahl ar.<J clau..l(;:l l)i!rtittafu r 2:5 set forth.:

1:1463

13464

C(llff#t/;t/(1fl Arl. lt$1 cl'l..:lodl

Sh.)rcrick

COMMONS DE-BATES Ncwember 30. 1981

The C<mslfJutHm

An Act to give effect to a request by the Senate and House of Commons of Canada

ANNEXE A-SCHEDULE A

Loi donnant suite a une demande du SCnat et de la Chambre des communes du Canad.:~

Sa Tres Exocllente MajestC la Re-ine. Whe«a$ Qlnllda has requested a nd COO· oonstdfrant : S

sented to the enactment of an Act of the 5 qu·a la demande et avoc le: consentcment Parliament of the United Kjnsdom to gjve du canada, Je Parleme:ru du Roy01ume-\Jni effect to. the provisions hereinafter set forth est invitC i adopter une loi visant a donner and the Senate and the House of Commons etret au.x disposition!! Cnonotes ci·aprCs et of Canada i.n Parliamenl assembled have que le SC-na1 et I~ Cbambre dts commumes 10 s,ubmittcd an address to Her Majesty 10 du C-anada rCunis en Parlement ont prC-rcqucsting that Her MajC$ty may graeiovsly sentE une adl't$SC demanclant l Sa Tr~ be plea:sed to cause a DiU to be laid before Graeieu5e MajestC de bien vouloir faire the Parliament of the United Kingdom for dtposer dcvant fe Parlement do Royaume-that purpose. Uni un projet de Joi ~ cene fin, IS

Be it therefore enacted by the Queen's 15sur l'avis et do consentement des Lord$ spiri­Mmt Exctll<nt Majesty, by and witb tbe tueli et tempore!! et des Communos rtunis advice and consent of the Lords S piritual en Parlement, et par l'autoritC de celui ·ci. and Temporal, and Commons. in th_is present ediete: Parliament usembl.ed. and by the authority of the same. as follows: 20

1. The COIUtitutiOII A ct , 1981 $et out in 1. La Lol constitulfonntllt de 198/, Cl'lon- 20~4<1> Schedule 8 to this Act is h.ereby enacted for ~ ~ l'annexe 8 , es-t ~tctie pour le Can3da ::;:,.~'~;,-and shaill have the forte of law in Canada et y a foroc de loi. Elle entre en ,·igu;eur tf.tl

and shall oome into force. u provided in t hat oonformCment 4 ses dispositions. Act. 25

:Z. No ACI of tbe Parliament u( the United Kingdom passed after the COJutitut ion Act, 1981 oomes into fc:>t« shall Clltend eo C01nada as part o( it.slaw.

2. l es luis a duptCe:l par le Parlement du c-!lol'l<!li

R U · · I' ' · d l 25p:~~~;""rck oyau.me- m aprcs entree en ''tgueur e a 1tt;rh~• pw•" lAi conJtltutiOI!n~/1~ de /98/ ne font pas Ctfl.l4a

partie du droit du Canada.

l. So far as it is not contained in Schedule 30 3. La pertie de la version (ran~aise de la 8, the F rench version or this Act is set out in p~sente loi qui figure a- ranne,xe A a force Sehedul.e A to this Act and has the same dt. Jot au Canada au m!me titre que la JO authority in Canada a5 lhe Englillh \'Crsion \'ersion anglaise correspondance. thereof.

•· Thi$ Ace may be cited a.s the Canmlu 3S 4. T itre abffge de la pr&ente Joi: UJI sur Atl. le 0/nodo.

NO'I'Cmbet 30. 19'8 1 COMMONS OEBATl'S ll46S

Clwm(ll:r••ic tfjllUO(If Cld lN$

M<O~illlllllo dlltlliofo tl lqi,ltli¥C lrodie>

<:,.i1111ad~~t~ il> Jpcoc!.l rim~m11t-

SCHEDULED

CONSTITUTION ACT, 1981

PART J

CANADIAN CHI\.RTER Of Rtof-ITS AND F'REEDOMS

Whereas Canad#l is founded upon princi~ pies thal recognize tbe supremacy of God and the rule or 1.3 w:

(Juof'fJntte of Rights anJ Fr~edoms

I. The Canadian Chorttr ()/Rights and Frted()mt g~rantees the rights and free. doms set out in it subject only to su.c.b rc:a,;onable lim.it5 prescribed by law as can be dtmol'l~tr;ibly justiftcd in a free and demo­cratic society.

1-'undo~ntol Freedoms

TIU' COr1$1itution

ANNEXED

Wl CONSTITUTIONNEll E DE 198 1

PARTI£ I

CHARTG CANADIENNE DES DROITS f.T LIBERTts

Attcndu que le Canada tst fond~ wr des principes qui rcconna.is.sent la suprCmatie de O:ie~:~ et la pr-irnaut~ du drQit :

Garonli~ dt.s droits tt llbatls

1. La Clttme canadftn«- du dN)Itr t>t n.~"~ t liboncu ..

5 UINrtis garantit les droits e.t libe:rtC:s qui Y ~ Ca-~od• soot ~nonci,;. Us. ne peu~·ent ltre rest rcint.s que par une r~le de droil, dans des: limites: qui soienl rai,;onnables e t dont la justification puisse- se d~montrer clan$ le cadre: d'une societe libfe et dCmocratiquc. 10

Lib-e,is fondamentoles

1. Evc:ryon,c bu the following fundamt.n· 10 z. Chacun a les l ibe:rt~ fondamenl.ales tal freedoms; .su.ivantcs :

(a) freedom of conscience and refision: a) liberte de COO$Cienoe. ef de religion; (b) freedom of tbou_gbt, belief. Opinion b) libertC de pen~e. de croyance, d'opi· and expression, including freedom of the nion ec d'e.xpres.sion, y compri-s la libertC I 5 press snd other media or oommunJcation; 15 de la prem et des autres moyeftS de (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and communication; (d) freedom o( association. c) liben~- de r~union pacifique:

d) libcrtC d'association.

/Nmocratic Rixlrts

3. Evtry citizen of Canada bas the right to 3. Tout citoyen canadien a le droit de vote 20~oiu . vote in an election o( mc:mben o( the Hou.se. et est e!ig.ible aux eJections ICgis.la tivcs f6dC· !.":~:'~ of Commons or or a legislative assembly and 20rales ou provi~ales. to be qualified for membersbjp therein.

4. (I) No HOU$C of Commons; atld no 4. (I) Le mandat maximal de la Cbambrc W.noJa1 11\to iJ~IdCI legislativt assembly 3hall continue for longer des communes et des assembiCes ICgjslatfves .,wmt»ks

than live years from the date fixed ror the est de. cinq ans ll oompter de 13 date fix0e25 return of t.he writs at a general election of iu 2S pour le retour des brefs. rc:latifs au" ~lectiON members. aCnCralcs correspondantcs..

(2) tn t ime or real or ;)pprebended war. (2) Le mandat de la Chambre des oommu· invasion or insurrection, a Hoo.se of Com- oes ou oelui d'une aMCmbiCe ICgislative peut moos may be continued by Parliament and a ~tre pro&ong6 respecth·ement par le Parle-- 30 legilllativc assembly may be contJnuod by the 30ment ou par la l~g.islature en question au· legislature beyond five years if such oon- dela de ci.nq· ans en cas de guerre , d 'invasion tinuation is oot oppos-ed by the votes or more 0\l d' in.surrection, ~tllei ou appr8lc:nd«s. than one-third or the members of the House pourvu q ue cette prolongation ne fuse pa.s

13466

Affirmu i•' ...... ,..."~

lltc.libttly ""d_,,i., or ,._

.. COMMO~S DcBATE!S N~n·t:tnbcr 30, 198 1

Tht! Comtilutio11

oF Commons or tbe lesislativt assembly, as the ease may be,

l'obje• d't.ane: oppositjon e.Apri(l'l~e par le$ voi:c de plus du t iers des diput~ de la Chambre des commvnes ou de· l'll$$tmbltc-16gisl.ativc.

S. T bere shall be a sitting oF Padiament and of each legislature at least once evtry twelve months.

!. Le Parlement et les IC.gislatures tien· u.-~a"IOdk nent une U ance au moins une FQis cous lcs 5

Mobility R;gltts

'· (I) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

5 douze m<>is.

Liberti d~ drculotion et d'itablisstment

'· (I) Tout choyen Qnadien a le droit de demeurer au Canada. d'y entrer ou d'en sorlir.

(2) Every citj:zen of Canada and every· (2) Tout cito)·en canadien et toute per·IOL!IXlltC per$0R who hu the status or a pennanenl sonne ayant le s ta lut de lisidcnt permanent d tu~ resident of Canada bas the right JOau Canada ont le droit :

(a) to move to a.nd t~ke up res-idence il'll a) de se d!placcr dans- tout le pays et ~ny province; a nd d.'Ctablir leur risiden(;e dans toute pi'~ (b) to pursue the. pinjns of a livelihood in vincc: 15 any proviDCt. b) de gagner leur vie dans toute province.

(3) The rigbts specified in subsection (2) IS (3) Les droits mcntionnCs au paragraphe ReM• .. .,;~ are subjecl to (2) soot subordot1n~s :

(a) any laws or practices of general a) aux lois et usages d'uppli(;ation gCn~· applic.\tion in for« in a province other rale en vigueur dal\$ une prcwince donn«:. 20 tbiln those. that dilSCriminate among per· s'ils n'.Sta blissc:nt entre les pe-t$0MCS

sons primarily on the basis of province of20 aucuoo distinction fondtc principalemenl prC$CnC or previ-ous residence; and sur la province de ~idence anttricure ou (b) any laws providing for reasonable resi~ actuelle; dc-ncy rtquirements as a qualification for b) t'UX lois pt!\·oyant de justcs conditions 25 I be receipt of publicly provided social de risidenoe en ~·ue de l'obtenti()n d« ser· services. 25 vices sociaux publics.

(4) Subtoctioos (2) and (3) do not pre- (4) Us patagraphes (2) et (3) n•ont pas Pnotn~mmQ4 elude any law, program or activity tbat has pour objet d'interdire les lois, programmes ou ::!'1''" a.s its object the ameUoratioo in a provinoe of activit~s dcstin.CS l ;unCiiore:r. dans une. pro· 30 conditions of individuals in that province who vinoc, la s ituatjoo d'individus d~favorlsel; are soc.ially or eoonomically dis~tdvantagtd tf30socialement ou «ooomiquement, si le tau.x the rate of employment in that pro-vince is d'empl<>i dans l.a pc-ovince est inf~ricur 3 la below the rate of employment in Canada. moycnne nationale.

Uga/Riglm

7. Everyone has the right to life. liberty 7. Chat."Un a droit a la vie, ;\ la llbert~ e t a 35 Vi .. libo;:tti" and socurity of Lhe person and the right not Is s~urite. de sa personoe: il ne peut !trt fokllri•C

to be deprived thereof cx(;ept in accordance 35 p<>rtC aneinte ~ ce droit qu•eil confotmitC with the principles of fundamental justice. avec les principes de justice fonda m.entale.

8. Everyorte has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.

8. Cbacun a droit li la ptotectioo cont.rc Foum"',· , .,, I .. . I . . AI\I'>C~ tbl'o. les tOUI es. e'S per<jUlSitl<m$ ()U eS $;U$.1e~ ""'.Ri,i<•

abusiVCll.

9. Everyone bas the right not to be arbi· 9. Cbacun a droit a la protection oontre la trarily detained or imprisoned. 40dttention ou l'emprisonnement arbitraires.

l)rtl~;~~~-ion .,. ~" ............. . ·-

.. NO'I'tmbetl0.1981 ' COMMONS DEUATI'S

PJOC:(Clif ... J '• (rimi,,.,...., ptnaJ .... um

te. E"·cry<)Oe has the: right on arrest or detention

(a) to be informed promplly of tht- rea· .sons thcrcd'or: (b) to rc-t.aiQ and lQstruct coun$el without S delay aoo 10 be infOrmed of that right: and (c) to ha..-e the validity of the detention determined by w~y of habttJI torpus and 10 be rel.eascd if the detention is not lawful. 10

JJ. Any person charged with an offence has the right

(Q) to be informed without unreasonable delay of the specific often«; (b) to be tried within a reasonable time: IS (c) not to be compelled to be a witness in proceedings again$t tbat person it1 respect of the offence; (d) to be presumed innocent until proven guilty 3C«!!rdil'l8 to l~w in a fair and public 20 hearing by a n independent a nd impartial tribunal; (t') not to be denied Ra!;onable bail with· out ju.st cawe: (/) except in the case of an otrenc:e under 25 military law tried before a military tri­bunal. to tltc: benefit of trial by jury where:. the maximum punishment for the offc.nOt i5 imprisonment for five ycan or a more: severe punishmerl1: 30 (g) not to be found guilty on account of any act or omission uniC$$, a t the time-of t he act or omission, h c:onstitutcd an offence uOOer Canadian or international law Of' wa$ criminal according to tbe gen· 35 eral prim:iples or law recognized by the community of nations; (h) if finally acquiucd of the offence. na. to be tried for it again and, if finally found guilty and :pun_i.s:hcd for 1he oirence, n.ot to 40 be tried or puniJShcd for it again; and (i) if found guilty of the offence. and if the punishment for the offence bas been ,·aried between the time: of commission and the time of senten.cing, to che benefit of t.hc:45 Jesser punit>hmc:nt.

Th(' Cormllution

10. Cbacun a le droit. en cas d 'arrc:s.tation ou de detention :

a) d 'ttrc:. inform~ dans les plus brc:fs delais dC$ motifS de son arrl:$tation ou de sa dC:tc:ntion: 5 b) d'avoir recours sanl! dHai :i rass.istanoe d'un avocat et d'Ctre inform~ de ce droit: c) de faire contr61tt, par Jtobtos corpus. la ICgalitC de sa dCtention et d'obtc:nir, le cas~cb!ant,sa tibCration. 10

J 1. Tout inculpC a le droit: o) d'ttre inf()(m6 sans dCia.i aoormal de J'infraetion precise qu 'on lui rc:procbe; b) d'Ctrc: jugC daM un detai raisonnable; c:) de ne pas ~tre con train~ de tC.moigoer J 5 oootre lui-mCme dans toute pouJ1:uite intentfe contre lui pour l' in(raction qu·on lui reproche.; d) d'Stre prCsume innocent tant qu'iJ n'cst pas dCelar~ cout4ble, confOf'~mtnt ll la 20 loi. par un tribunal lnd6pc:ndant et impar­tial 3 !'issue d'un proc:Cs public et ~qui table: e) de ne pas Ctre privC sans juste cause d'une mise en libert~ as.wrtie d'un caution- 25 nement rai!;c>nnable; f) sauf s'il s"agit d'u.ne infraction relevant de Ja juuicc: m.ilitairc, <k benCficier d'un proc:Cs 8\'C:C jury lorsque la peine maximalc: pr6vue pour l'inJraetion dont il est accuse 30 est un emprisonnement de cinq ans ou une peine plus grave:.; g) de: ne: ~s Ctrc: dCclari couPQble en raison d'une action ou d'u.ne omission qui, au mc>mel'lt W elle est $urve:nue, ne oonsti- 35 tuait pas une infraction d'itprCs le droit interne du Canada ou le droit international et n'avait pas de caractere criminel d'apr~ les principes gtnCraux de droit reconnus par l'enscmble des nations: 40 h) d 'unc: part de ne: pa$ ttre jugC de tiOU· \'eau pour une infraction dont il a CtC dCfinitivemtnt acquiUC, d'aulre part de ne pas Ctre jugC ni puni de noun~.au pour une infraction dorn il s Ctf dtfinitivc:mc:nt 45 dCclarC coopab!e et puni; I) de btnHider d~ la pein~ la moins s~~re. k>rsque la peine qui .sanction ne: l' in· fraction doot il est dCclarC coupable est

13467

Al'fCiot.l1io• ~~t~ .;&.c,ndlln

MfU.. (ri..,;., ... ~,

pt~lcs

1;)468

S.lf~· ....

l'.qulllilt kf<wc ••Ill .,,., ...... and fqUJ I ptVI«l..., a ... llaocf'il of t."'

OmcUt CiiiiJ:UIU<fl N",. a .... , .. ~

COM\\IONS DF.BA'I'ES November 30.1981

Tht Coml((urion

11. Everyone has the right not to be su~ jectcd to any cruel aDd unusual treatment or punishment.

13. A witness wbo testiliu in any proceed­ings has the right not to ha\•e any incriminat­ing evidence so given used to incriminate that witOOS$ in any other proceedings. except in a prosecution for perjury or for the giving of (()tltradictory evidence.

modifiCe entre le moment de la pc-rp(tra­tion de l'infmcti<:ln et celui de la $-etUence.

11. Cbacun a droit ii ta protection contrt tous tr3itcments ou pcinc:s cruets c:.t inusit~.

J3. Cbacun a droit~ cc qu'aucun tCtnoi· Sgnage incriminant qu'il donn~ ne soit utilise

poor J'il'.lcri(l\iner dans d';Jut~ procidurcs. sauf lors de pour$uites pour parjure oo pOur t~moignagcs oontradictoircs.

S Tim*~et iMoiminJ•

14. A party or witness in any proceedings 10 14. la partie ou le timoin qui ne peu'·ent IOtnl~w wbo does not understand or speak t lte !an· .suivre ICli proc6durcs, soit parce qu'il.s ne gua.ge in which the proceedings are conduct· ~mprenlltnl P'\S ou n.e 5X\rlent pas: la languc cd or who is dear bas the right to the assist- employee. soil parce qu'il .s sont atteio tS de ance or an interpreter. s.urdih~. ont droit o\ !'assistance d 'un inter-

prCte. 15

EquaUt)' Rights

15. (I) E\'ery individu31 ts equ.:ll berore 15 15. (I) La loi ne fah aroeption de per-and unda •be Jaw and bat~ the right tu the sonne Ct s'applique Cgalemeru :1 t0t1S. et tous equal protection and equal benefit o( the law ont droit a Is mtme protectioo et au mCme without discrimination and, in f){lrticular, WnCfitt. de la loi, indCpendamment de toute ~W'ith<tut di.scriminati<:ln based on race, natiOn· discrim.inat.ion. n04am.n\erH des discrimina - 20 al or etbnic origin, colour. religion, sex, age20 tions rondtes sur la race.. J'originc nationale ot mental or phys:ical disability. 01.1 ethnique, la coulcur, la religion, le: sexe.

t'ige ou fcs di:ficien«S mcotales ou pbysi­qut:i.

·~toll fky)ftl If 'ai. (Jali!l ,j( binifoce c• llf«t:tl-Q, 4de <ltlab

(2) Subsection (I) does noc preclude .-.ny (2) l.c paragraphe (I) n'a pas pour ~ffet251'fa.cn-:nmtH1oe law, program Or actjvity that has a.s its object d 'interdire les Jois, programmes ou ac.tivitCs '::1~'011

the amelioration of conditions or di$.1dvan· dest inis :i amC.Jiorer la situation d'individus tagcd individuals (lr groups. including those 25 oo de groupcs dtfavorises, notammc:nt du fait tbat are disadvantaged because: o( race, na- de lwr race, de teur ofigine nationale ou tionaJ or ethnic origin, coJour. rtJigion. se•. c:thniquc-. de kur couleur. de leur rcligioo. de 30 ~se or mental Or ph)'&ical d isability. leur sexe, de leur ;tge ou de lcurs dl:ficiences

mentales ou physiques.

Official Languog~.t of Canada Langu~s offiC'ielles du Ccmuda

16. (I) English and French are the official 16. (I) Le rran~2is et r anglais sont les !ffiQ!!IIU 11 t<l.nguagcs of Canada and have equality of JO la ngues officielles du CaM.da: ih• om un ta'!.~:!" 11

sta tus and equa l right$ ;and privileges as to statut et des droits et privilCges tgaux ((u<Jnt3S their u.se in aJI institutions of the Parliament ;l leur USilge dolnS lc:s institutions du Parle-aOO government of Canada . ment et du gou,·ernement du Canada.

(2) English and French are the offteia l (2) Le (ran~ais et l'an&Jaj,s s<>nt Its langue:s Unr., Jf1.W!Iud•

lanauages or New Brunswick and have 35 olliciclle5 du Notweau-Brunswkk: ils ont un ~YC'U· equality or status a nd equal rights and pri\·i· statut et des drOits et privileges ~gauJC quant 4081'11M•i<t leges as to their USC· in a ll institutions of the a leur ussge clans les institutions de. la LCgis·

~N"'..-"'"m"bt""-r 30::e:..,••,s,, ___ _ ____ _ __::co~·~•:!M~Ol<~~s~o~E:!B~A~'l'C!F.S~-------------..!' lllt•lf

ltd'-~ll«mtt~t Ill~··» •"'11 -Pfoc:fNi~ or Nf•lltiiMWkk lcti,\1.1\II'C

l'lrlillmtfll l t )' MUIIIe:J.alld -· Nno· llflm h•id .-a cui~ ~~~d rcto«<s

Pf'OC'IIlldi~itl -·· .:r.u.bliiaol b' l"lltli..-ol

"'-C'din$' 0.. Ntw llt11M•icl -· COMM•IIic ... dons by J<Jblie • ithfld-1

"''"'"•*'•

legislature and government of New Bruns· wick.

(3) Nothing in this Charter limits the authority of Parliament or a fegi$1.ature to ad~~ance the cqu,alhy o( status or use of Eng­lish and French.

Tht- Ctm.Jfillltiun

lature et du gouvernement d1.1 No~o~veao· Brunswick.

(3) La ptCsente cbartc ne limitc pas le pouvoir du P1rlement et de$ lqis latures de

5 favoriser la progression ven I'CgalitC de. 5 statui ou d' usage du fran-;ais et dc.l' anglais.

11. ( I) Everyone has the right to us.e Ens· 17. (I) Cbac1.1n a le d roit cfemploye:r le !ish or Freoch in any debates and other fran91i.s ou l'ang1ais dans les dibats et tra· proceedings of Parliament. vaux du P3rlcment.

(2) Everyone has the rig.ht to use English 10 (2) Cb,cun a le droit d 'employer le rran-IOT~ .. ,.,. • ., or French in any deb;ues and other proceed- ~ajs oo l'anglais clan$ tcs dCbats et tra\'ilUll. de ~'~~~~;.re• ings or the legis la ture of New Brun$wick. la Ug.i$lature du Nou,·eau-Brunswick. •~·~

18. (I) The statutti, ,ecords and journals 18. ( I) Les lois. les archives.. les compte$ or Parliament shall be ·printed and published rendu.:s et le:s prOCC:s.-\'Crbaux du Partement in Englisb and French and both language IS$0nt imprim~!; et publies en fra~ais et en l5 version..~ a re ~u.ally authoritative. anglais. Jes deull. versions des Jois aya.nt ~sa~

lement force de:. toi c:t celles des autres docu­ments ayant tmme valeur.

(2) The. statUte$, tocord$ ind journal$ of (2) Les lois. les irc.hives. les compte$ Do.lcv~~de the leg.isJau.u-e of Nevo· Bnmswict shall be rendus et les procCs·verbaull de la Legisla- 20:.'~!~::c printed and published in English and French ture du Nouve<~u-Brunswick sont imprimbs '"''"'";d and both language vtl'$iOnS a~ equally 20c:t publjC~ c;n frJtn~a is tt en a naJais. Its ckull authoritat ive. versions dc:s lois a)-ant Cgalement (orce de loi

et celles de!; autt~ documents ayant mbne valeur. 25

19. ( I) Either Engljsb or french may be: 19. ( I) Chacun a le droit d'empJoyer le used by any person in, or in any ple.'l.ding in fran~is ou l'anglai$ dall$ toutes les affair« or process i$$uin,g from. any oourt established dont sont :sais.is les tribunaull. Ctablis par le by Parliament. 25 Parlement et dans tousles actes de proc6dure

~""­d i!OliOI let l ·ti"-n Cu bU\ ,., le h rltm(fll

qul en d6coulent. )0

(2) Either Et'l&lish or French may be used by any perSOn in. Of in any pleading in or process issuing from, an)' court or New Bruru:wick.

(2) C bacun a I~ droit d'employer le fran · 9tiS OU l'anglais dan.s tOUtCS les a(faircs dont sont sa&sis le$ tribuna11x du Nouveau·Bruns­"'·i<;k et danil tous les actes de procedure qui en d6cQulent. 35

20. (I) Any member or the public in 30 lt. (I) Le public a. au Caoada, droit a Canada ha$ IliA:· riaht to com.m~o~nie41te with, l'emploi du fra~js ou de l 'an.glais pout and to roccive available services from, any communiquer avec le siCge ou radministra-bead or central office of an in$titution of •be tion centra le. des institutions d u Parlement ou Parltametu or govectunent of Canada jn Eng- du gouvemement du Canada ou pwr en 40 lisb or Frencb. and ha5 th~ same right with 35 recevoir les servicts; il a le m~.me droit i respect to soy othet orrice or any such ins.ti· I'Cgard de tout a~o~ tre bureau de ces institu· tutiOt'l where lions li oU:, .selon le cas:

(a) there is a s ignif'loC3nt demand fOI' com- a) l'emplc>i du fra~i$ ou de ranatai$ fait munintions with a nd services from that l'objet d 'une demande important<:; 45 off !QC in iuch language.: or 40 b) l'emploi du fran-;ais et de l'anglais se

justifle par la voca;tion du bureau.

·-­olev.ut b Wbw•••d" l'iou•w"' 8rua,.i(\

Commllnih­liol'ls toudc:s ...,...._rbfl IC~o in,lil~~ fbl6nola

13470

c-IIICII• lioo' by l!llblk ,.;,h New ... "' .. ;"' iMiltud-

COnt.iloolllivnd ct.i$CIIIf; oonmtuOOnd ,...........,"~

k iiiiiiJ •bd

"''"'"'"!<) ,.. ... ~'>'tO!

Cll:f'lin~il)of

""*"'V .iMtNCiiOfl

..

November lO. 1981

Thto Cun.ttiruti()n

(b) dut 10 the nature of the offic:c:. it is reasonable that communications with and services from that office be available in both English and f'renc.h.

(2) An)' member of the public in Ne.w 5 (2) Le public a , au NoU\'tau-Brunswick, Brunswick has the tigfH '0 o:>mmunicate droit ;\ l'tmpJoi d11 fran~is OU de l'a ngl:ais with, and to receive available services from. pour communiquer ave<: tout bureau des ins·

C<)onnlullit':o· lioo:lf~Uf iU lldmini~tr(, t~ loo.iow.iM 'i.Qn, <lu l\IOU •c:.o~ · any ofi~Ct of an in$•itution of the legis1;uure t itutions de la legisla ture ou du gou,•crne-

or government of New Brunsvo•ick in £ngli.sb ment ou pour en rcce,·oir lcs servioes. s ,, ... ... io:l

or french. I 0

21. Nothing in sectiOO$ 16 to 20 abrog.atts ZJ .• Les articles l6 :.\ 20 n•ont pas pour ()r derogates from any right, privilege Olr effet, en« Qui a trail ;i, la Jangue fra.n~ist obligation with respect to I he English aod ou anglaise ou :.\ « ·S deux langues. de porter French languages.. or either of 1bem, th.al attcintt-aux droils. privil~ges ou obfigati<.los eJ.jsts <~r is continued by ''irtue of any other LSqui cxiSlent ou sont mnintenus aux termes 10 provision or the Constitutjon or Canada. d'une autre disposition de la Con,;ti tution du

Canada.

21. Nothing in sections 16 to 20 abrogates 21. les a rticl« 16 a 20 o'ont pas pour or derogates rrom any leg-al or cu$t()nl3ry effct de porter attc1ntc a ux droits d pri,·iiC· right or privilege acquired or enjoyed either ges. antCritun ou pos.ttriwrs j l'e-ntrie en 15 before or after the coming ioto rorce or this 20 vigueur de la prCsente cbarte et dOcoolant de Chatter with rt:$pec:l. to a ny languag~ that is la kli ou de la ooutume. des laetgucs autrcs not E.n.glish or French. que le (ran~ais ou l'anglais.

MiltO'ity Laruuagt' Educational Rights Dro;u iJ /';nstruction dans la hmg1'e tie la mlnqr/t~

l>binei<" ., vi(..:~• <le « nal"u 4i,:potltiont

13. ( I) Citizens of Canada ZJ. (I) Les citoyc::n~ canadiens : ~~~~uc . (a) whose- first language learned and still o) doot la premiere langue apprise et20 oll>lf..:lul"

understood is that of the BngJisb or French. 2-5 encore compri$e est ctlle de la minoritC linguistic minority population of the: prov- f1'3ncophone ou a nglophone de la province i~ in which th~y reside, or oU its rtsident, (b) whO have received their primary b) qui ont ~u k.ur in$truC1iOn. ~u nh•eau Khool instruction in Caoada io Engli$h or prima ire. en fran~a. is ou en anglais au 25 French a nd reside in a provin-cx: where the 30 Canada et qui rtsideot d3ns une provioce langua ge in which tbe)' rccci .. ·ed that oU la languc dans laquelle iJ:s ont re~u ceue instruction is 1be laoguage of the English. inst ruction t$t ctlle: de: la 1ninoritC fraoco· or French Linguistic: minority population of' phone oo aoglopbc>ne de la province. the province:, ont. dans J'un ou !"autre cas, le droit d'y (aire 30

ha\'e the right h) have their child re-n reoch•e 35 instruire teur,t cofants, aux niveaux: prima ire primary and sccoodary school instruction in et $tCondaire. dans cette languc. that language in that province.

(2) Citittns of Canada of whom any ehikt (2) Les eiloytos. canadictl$ dont un enrant coco•U ili

bu rcceh'Cd or is re<:eiving prima ry M a r~u ou r~cKt &OO instruction, au nivcau ~=~~t<k u secondary $Chool iMtruction in E:ngli$h or 40 ptimilire ou seooodaere. en fra~is ou en 35 d '•*'fl•~~>'•i>.ln French in Canada, have t t.e right lo ha,·e all a nglais au Canada ont le droit de raire: ins-their children roce.ivc. primary and secondary truire tOlls feurs enfants. aux niveau:c pri· school instf\ICtion in tht S3me lan,guage. maire tt S«<ndaire, dan$ l:a lan,gue de ccne

instruction.

.. N~lllber JO. 1911 COM-MONS DEBATES 1). 71

·-­~

._, n ...... ..... ,". ----·'"'""' ..... lli,...,. ••

All«l.,huol IIJIIIU•IIIi ,,...,..,_ .~ .. ,. Ch .. wr

(l) Le droit rCICOI'Inu au.x ciiO)"CM c:aaa· dO<M .. , la .. ,..,..,.... (I) et (2) d< fair< iuuviK let;,.. cnfuts. an nivau:~ primaiK et sec:Mdairc. daM la lanaue de la miooritl

()) The "''" ol citiltft.S of Caaada •nder ,.boect.,.. (I) .,d (2) 10 bo .. tbeir<biklr<n roxivc primary a.od sccond3ry school iluc.f1Kiion in the bni\U,at olthe Enalish or Frc.ncll hnauiltk minority population ol a PfO"Ince

Sfrat!COphoac ou anaJophone d'une province : 5 4) t'uuce partout d.aru 1., pto'linot o.l: lot nombrc des cnJaftl$ des citoyem qui ont cc droit Cll auffilant pour j~stirte:r i leur

(•) t pplit':l wherever in lhe pro<vioce the number or c;hjJdrcn or citizens wbo bsve auch 1 right is sufficient to wa.mnt che provi$i0fl to them oot of public funds of 10 mfnorhy language. inm uction: ~nd (b) includes. where lhe !'lumber or those ( .hildrcn JO warrants, the right to have 1hem receive. thal inStruction in minority II AJIIIlJC edut~~tional facilities provided 15 out o( public fundll.

endroilla pre:station, sur ks fonds P'!blic:s, de l'in,.ruction d11n1 lra langue de la 10 minoril~;

b) oomprc:nd, lonque le. nombtc de ce:1 enfants le juatlfie , le droll de: I~ faire instruire dans del ~Uiblissemc::nts d'ensc::i· gnement de 111. minorhC IJnauislique finan· 15 ea sur lel foncb publk:s.

Elf/()f'U~nl Rt«n~r-1

l4. (J) Anyone wbos;c: ri&hts or frcodoms. 2.C. (I) Toutc pcrsonnc., victime de viola· :::':::' as cu.anntccd by thts Cbaner. ha\·e bttn tion ou de nl:ptton dca droitJ ou libents qui ......, • • -.. ln(riftltd or dmitd may apply to a <:ourt of lui sont J.lrlntis par la prC:scnte cftarte. pcut competent juritdJCtKJD to obc.a..in sucb remedy 20s'adrosc."r • un tribvul com.~cat powobte· 20 1t1 the COIIfl COftSidcn appropriare and just in 111ir b f'fPitttioft que le t.ribv,yJ esci-mc: con· tM dreum.nanc:cs. venabk et jv.stc cu C:prd na cin:oosta..nc:cs.

(2) W~. in proc:udiOJ'f under .su~· Cl) Lonquc:, dans une imtancc •isec au ;:::"~ tion (I). 1 court coac;ludcs that evidence was para1nphe (I), le tribYnal a coadu que des ,.Me:;! obuiftCd in a manner that inJrinsccf Of 25 flfmenu de preuvc ont f1C: obten-.s dus de1. 25 :::;:-• denied any riJ.hu « fr«doms guaranteed by conditions qui portent 11tdnte au,; droits oo .. .......:.,~ this C harter, the evidence sha ll be c:xdudtd libertfs aortntls p4t la prCsente c:harce, CC$ ckl• j~a~lkc lr h it e&ttbllsflcd that, h-:H··ina regard to all Climents de prc:uvc sont 6cart& s'il cs1 ~tal>li. tile C:itCUit\SIJ.nCc:S., the admission or it in the CU rgard 4UJt C:itCOtUIInet$, que leut utiJisa· prooecdinl' would bting the. a dmintit ration JOt ion esc tusccpciblc de dC:consid~tcr l'admi· 30 of justic:e Into d ittc::pute, ntstration de la juttke.

1$. The auarantt'o in this Charter of cc..... U . Le fait que 11 J)rl:1c::nte cbatte garantit tain rights and freedoms shall not be COO· eerlliM droitJ tet libc:rtC:s ne pone pas .6"tntcd 10 •• to abroptc or derogate from any atteinto au• drolu: ou Ubc.rt~s- ancestrau.x, Jbori&lnal. Ltcaty or other rishu or frttdomsJSinut de crah& ou autrcs - des peupJct35 that pertain lO tbe aboriginaJ peoples ot autoc:htona du Cuada, notammeot: C.n1da inciDdinJ 4) au dtoita ou libcrtC. roconnvs par la

(•) anr riJbts or freedoms that ha~·~ been Prcdamatton royak du 1 oc:tobrc J 763; f«<I!!IItzcd by tbc Royal Pnxl•mahon ot 6) aw: droiu ou libcn& acqu.d: par rC:gle-Onobc:r 7, 1163; a !Id 40 ment de rcvcndialcions carhoriaks. 40 (b) uy ripu or frccdoms that may be acquired by tbe abori&]nal peoples of Canada by way or land dainu sctdcmcnc.

M•inlicada d..,.a cc lobctlb ··-·-

0!.-erncll•• .... ,,.. ... _ -~lro.:IOII b) Cki/ICI

Z6. Tile auarantcc in this Ctutner or Clef· 26. Le fait que la prftcfue c.bartc prantit tain rithls aftd freedoms sball nol be oon· 4Seeruins droht et libcrtb AC cooslitu.c pas

MUIIlllln~ 11111 .. 4-•• -

13472

Ritltb (Cfl*(ifl&

~""~Is

"'""""'

AI'JIIi~dOII ~ wrri•qrlu ud wrriu.1rid li UI ...... il ;o,

l(ll>l. llYC ,.,.. .... C"Aic:odlld

Ap1o1>:.1i""..C Cbt tlto

b~Piion ,.J.r~ ~ptC»

do:IW.tion

--COMMONS DEBATES NO\•embet 30. 1931

Tit~ COR$liflllkm

strucd as denying the existence or any otber right$ or freedoms tMt exist in Canada.

unc negation des aut res drohs ou libertCs qui e.xjstent au CAnada.

ol>hinli(ll d.., ptlll~n~

27. This C harter shall be i nterpreted in a manner con!iistent with the pn::$ervat ion and etthancement or the multicultural heritage of Canadians.

17. Toute interpretation d-e la prCsc.nte cha.rte. doit conoorder avec l 'ob~ctir de pro·

S mOU\'oir le maintien et b. valorisation du patrimoine mullicultureJ des Canadiens.

5 """"cl

28. NQtwithstao4ins anythin& i.n this 28. lnd<:penda.tnment des a utres disposi- 14-.JM~ Charter. I he rights and frec:doms re(em:d to tions de la prisente <:harte.IC$ droits et liber· ::;t.~·::,;:~b i n it are guaNinteed equally to male and t& qui y $0nt mcntionnC.s sont g.arantis ~gale· 4il' ....... \'lt

fema le person$.. JOmentaux pcrsonnes des deu~ sexes. 10

Z9. Nothing in this Charter abrogates or 19. les dispositions de la prCsente c-harte derogate$ from any rights Or privileges guar• nt porcetu pas aue-inte 3\.IJt droits ou privil~ · antecd by or under the Connitution of ges garanti$ en vertu de la ConstitutiOn du Canada in respcc1 of denominat ional. sepa- Canada concemant lcs Cooles sC-parCcs et rate. or di~ntient schools. IS aut res Cc..,les. cOnfessionnclles. 15

30. A reference-in this Cha rter to a ptO\'· 30. Oans la prCsente eh.:~ ne, les di.sposi-ince or to the le:gislou i,·e assembly or legtsla· t ions qui \'i.sent les pN>'iil.ctS. leur legis laturl! tu re of a prcwinoe shall be doemed to include ou leur assembiCe ICgislative visent Cgale-a reference to the Yukon Tertitory a nd the ment le tertitoirc du Yukon. le,; tetritoires du Northwest Territories. or to the apprOpria te 20 Nord-Ouest <>u leur$ autoritCs Jegi;sttuives 20 legisla th'e a uthority the-reof, as the case m.:~y rompC:-tentes. be.

31. Nothing in this Charter extends the legislative powers of any body or authority.

Application of Charter

Jl. La pr(scnte charte n'Ciargit pa.s IC$ comJ)Ctenccs ICgislatives de quelque otgs· nisme ou autoritC que oe soit.

Applit-otion tie la dum~

M..I.Ptifn~ ~; ..... lalij\j «mt!flts fco~

•\ ;1>1ila-lill• , .. , .. !ffl'iwii>:S

t-'oo~~lfiW­

·~"" ..,,pile""' tqi>b!io""

32. (I) Thi.sChO'Irter awl.i~s 31. ( I) L,., prCsent~ cb~rle $'applique.: 2.5 "r""""t"'*<lf l11lhuw

o) au Parlemcnt et au gouvemement du (a) to the Parliament and government or Canada in rcspc:c1 of all maners within the autborily of Pa rliament int-luding a ll ma l· ters relating to the- Yukon Territory a nd Northwest Territ()ries; :.nd 30 (b) to the legis la ture a nd government of csc-h province. in respect of aJI matter$ within the authority of the legis lature or each ptovince.

Canada . pour tous lcs domaines re-levant du Parlem~t. y compris etull qui ooncer· nent le territoire du Yukon et les terri toi-res du Nord·Ouest; 30 b) a la ltgisla ture et au goovemement de chaque province, pour tous les domaine..; relevant de cene h~gislah•re,

(2) NotwitbstMding subsection (I), SIX• JS (2) P3r d~rogat ion au parographe ( I ), l'ar- a"~•·KI~ t io-n 15 shall n<>l ha,'eeffect until t hree years tlcle IS n'a d 'e ft'et que trois ans aprCs l'en·.lS after this section oomes into force. tree en vigueur du prC.scnt article ..

33. (I) Parliament or the legislature of a 33. (I) Le Parlement ou la ICgtslature Wl'l."\ll1i<l>sw ~, ... ,q,

PfO\' iooe may expressly declare in an Act of d'unc province peut :idoptt"r une loi oU il est np.c.. .. Par"liament Or of the legislature. as the case40expressCment dCcla re que <:~lle-ci ou une de ma)' be. tbat the Act or a provis ion thereof ses dispositions a effet ind€-pendamment 40 5hall operate notwithstanding a prO'I'i.sioo d'une disposition donntt de I' article 2 ou des includ~.-d i n SC:ttion 2 or sections 7 to IS of articJes 7 i I S de la pr<:sente <:harle. this C harter.

. -November 30, 1981 · COMMONS DEBATES I ).473

f i•c ' ""r li..,;Willn

Rco:1.0pitio11 cl t".d sdll$ lbot~l~ .... .,.,..,_,. ""u

Commh111c111 h)

promote N"RI <W'J"UIIiliw,

(2) An Act or a provi,ion of an Act in respect of wbicb a dedaration made undt:r thi!i section is in effect shalt have such. opera· tion 8S it W()tl!d b3\'e but for tbe proviSiOI.'I Of cbis Charter referred to in the dcdaration. 5

Tht Ccmstflulion

(2) La Joi ou la di:spo!lition qui fa it J'objct d'unt dCclarntic>n tonforme au prCsent article et en vigueur a l'c.ffet qu'elle aurait sauf la disposition en C3USt de la chane.

(3) A dcclar~uion made under sub$tction (3) la declaration viste au -rao~aphe (I) 5011"- • .... 0" >'11idili

( I) shall cease to have effect tive )'Cai'S after cesse: d'avoir cffet a la date: qui y at prC:ciste it comes into force-or Qn such e.arlicr date as ou. au piU$ tard, cinq ans aprC:s son cntrCe en may be specified in the declaration. vigueur.

{4) Parliament Of~ legislature of a prov· LO {4) Le P;u-lemtnt ou ~,~ne ICgi.slat-ure pc-ut No• ... * inee may re-enact a declarat ion made under adopter de nouveau une dC<:Iaration \•isCe au IO •dolflll•

subsection ( I). paragraphe-{1).

(5) Subsection (3) applies in respoc.t of a re-enactment made under subsection (4).

Citation

{5) Le paragrapbe (J) s'applique <1 toute di:cl.ar;u ion adoptCe sous le rCgimc du para-8J11ph< (4).

34. Thjs Part may be cited as the Cmadi- 15 34. Titre de ta prdcnte partje: ChorJt IS Tiu-. tm Chtlrt~r of .Rights and Frndoms. r:anadie11ne des droits et li~rti.s.

PART 11

RCCHTS Of: 11-f~ ABORIGINA.L PEOPLES OF

CANADA

35. ( I) The cxisling aboriginal and treaty rishts or tbe aboriginal peoples or Canada a re hereby recognized and affirmed.

PAR.T IE 11

DR.OlTS Des PI!:VPLE$ AU"rOCHTONES llt.J

CANADA

3S. (I ) Lc:s droi1s existants - an«t~traux oo issus de tra itCs - des peuples autochtones du Canada som reoonnus. et confirm&.

clliohuo! •d~ Pf\lpln ~IKIII C*':l

(2) l.n this Act, .. aboriginal Canada" includes the Indian. MCti$ people$ or Caoada.

peoples of20 (2) Dan.s la pr~nte loi. •pcupi"C$ autoch· 20 ~finition c1c

lnuit and tones du Canada,. s 'c:ntend notammc:nt des :=:c,IPle!Sdll Jndiens. des lnuit cl des MCtis d~o~ Ca.nada. c.~~·

PART 111 PARTIE Il l

ltQvALIZATIG." AND R.f.OIONAL DISPAJUTIES Pi:!.Rt:QUATION ET INEGALITE.s RtiOIOI'iALES

36. (I) Without altering the legi$13ti\'C 36. (I ) SOU$ N:scn•e des compi:.tences f.~..,.nh autbority or Parliament or or the prC)Vincial ICgislatives du Parlement et des l~g.isbcures ~~~lctl'4ts legislatures. or tbe rights of any of them witb 25ct de leur droit de le$ exerccr. le Parlement 25-=hJe~ respect to the exercise or tbeir legislative et les ltgislatute.s, a insj que le.s gouvernc· authority. Parliament a nd the legislatures, mems fCdCra l et provinciault, s'engagent a: together_ wi~h the &0\'ernmcnt or Cana.da and D) promouvoir l'tgali«: des c hances de the provutC13I govetnments, are commJUtd to tous Jc.s Canadiens dart$ la rtclt-erthe de

(a) promoting equa1 opportunities f'or the30 leur bien~tre: 30 well-being of Canadian~ b) favoriser le d~'\'eloppemetu ~conomjque {b) furthering COOilOmic development to pour rC:duire l'intgalitC des chances; reduce disparity in opportunities: and c) fournir ;\ tous les CanadicrtS. a un (C) providin& essential public services of niveau de qualitC acceptable. les serv~ reasonable qwtlity to all Can;.ldi~ns. 35 publics cw:nticls. 35

COI'M'Iilmt~~l

"""'"'' ~!ilio,: lle'IVO(U

('~tttlvtiqn,t -r~•~ncc

Partiq.lioll or ~bo•iVn•l ..... ~

1'\o•''"''~";o, or ICI'fi(Oij~

c;c ...... pNColiuc li>t _ ... , Ce~~Jti~_.t«~~~ ~ <~ ...

.. COMMONS DEBATES

ne~ C;:m.JtilUJion

(2) ParJiarm-nt and the government of Canada are commint!d to the principle of makjng equalization payments to ensure that provincial gQvernmentt ha\·e sufficient revc· nue$ to provide reasonably comparable le' ·els of public services at reasonably comporablc le\·els oftuation.

PART I V

CO:-oSTITUTIONAl CONFERENCE

(2) Le Parlcment et Je. gouvcrnemem du Canada prtnnent l'tng<lgen~ent de prineipe de faire des paiements de pCrC:quation pro­prcs ~ dor1ncr au:< .gouve(neroe.nts provin·

Sciaux des revc:nus-suffisants pour lu metlre S e-n mesure d'3s:ourer les services publics il un ni~·cau de qualite et eh: fiscalit~ unsiblcment com!JI!rables.

PAR TIE f \'

CONFe-RENCE CONSTITUTIONNELLE

37. (I) A oonstitutiona l conference corn- 37. (I) Dans l'annCe suivant l'enlr" en ('(lll~tt~ posed of the Prime Minister of Csnada and ''igueur de la prCsente partie, le premier 10::-'11

''11"'

the fi rst minjsters ol the pr~·inces sba.ll be 10 ministre du caoad:t convoque une cooftrence convened by the Prime Minister of Canada constitutionneUc rCunis.sant les premien. within one year a fte.r this Part comes into minisw~:s proYinci.aux et lui·m~me. force.

(2) The conference con~·c.ncd undc.r sub- (2) Sont placCcs a l'ordre du jour de la r•.nkip.:lon section (I) shaU have included in its agenda 15Ct)nf(rence visCe a u paragrapbe (I) les qucs- 15~~!:.~:, a n item respecting constitutional matters t ions oons.titutionn<lles qui i nt~ressent dircc· that directly affect tbe aboriginal peoples of temcnt les peoples autochtones du Canada. Canada, including the identific~tion aOO notarument la decennina tion e t la dCfinit ion definition of the rights of those peoples to be des droits de ccs pcuplcs a in.scrire daniS la inc.Juded in the Constitution of Cansda. and 20Constitution du Canads . le premic.r ministre 20 iht Primt Minisler or Canada shall lnviie du Canada invite le:urs Nprfsenlanis ~ pMti~ representati\·es of tbose peoples to participute cipcl" aux t ra.vau.x reJatifs S ces questions. in the d iscussions on that item.

(J) The Prime Minister of Canada shaJJ (3) t..e. premier r,:nini str~: du Can:tda invite Par~~t-,.,lio• dd !enilo)i~

invite elected repr~entatjves of the govern· 2Sdes reprCsentants Clus des goo\·ernem<nts du ments or the Yukon Territory 3nd the North· ltrritoire du Yukon et des terrltoires du 2 5 west Territori-es to participate in the discu,s. Nord-Ouest a participer <'lUX l ravaiOl rcl:ttifs sions on an)' item on the agenda of the ii toute question ·placOe a J'ordre du jour de la conference. convened under s-ubsection (I) conference Yi$ee au J)31".tS:raphe ( I) et qui. that. in the opinion of the Prime Minister, 30sclon lui, interesse directement le territoi.rt directly 3ffccu ttle Yukon Territory and the du Yukon et lcs tcrritoires du Nord~Oucst. 30 NOftt.~·t$t Territories.

PART V

I'ROC£DURE F'OR. AMflNI>ING CON$TinJTION Of CANADA

PA RT!£ V

Pft()(:tDUR£ Oe. MODifiCATION DE LA CONST11Vf10N DU CANAI)A

38. ( I) An amtndment to lhe Constitution 38. (I) La Constitmion du Canada pcut of Canada may be made by proclamation eue modifi6e par proclamation du 80U\'er· issued by lhc G()Vt'rnor General under the.3S neur gCnt:-:-al $0Uli le grand secnu du Canada. Great Seaf of Canada where so a uthorized autorisie 9 la foi.s: by a) par des r&olutions du SCna t et de la 35

(a) resoluti()ft$ of tbe Senate and House of Chambre des oommu.nes: Commons: and (b) resoluti()ns of the- lesislative assern· 40 blies o( at least two-thirds of the provinces

b) par des resolutions dtS assemblies 14isl3tive$ d'a11 moirl$ deux t iers des pro­vinces dont la populatjon confondue repr~

"~­nOr..Uitd"' ~MC~inen~M

November 30, 1981 COMMONS DEB:\TES IJ47S

....

A•ncndm•nl lo)" llllt~U' C<lOIMnt

The> Comtlr11t1rm that have, in the aggregate, ac.:cCJ«<ing. tO stntc. $CIOn le recen:Jcmeot g~ntr.~ l Je plus t he t hen Jstest gcne-mJ census, at least firty rCccnt :i r<:.poque, au moins cinqus nte pour per cent of the p<>puJation or all the cent de la popl.llation de toutes Jes provinces. prO\•i.nces.

(2) An amc·rKimcnt made unde.r subsection 5 (2) Une. modificat ion faite conformCme.nt S Majotitf ~impJe (I) that derogates from tbe legislative <lu paragrapbe ( I) mal$ dCrogatoire 3 la powers, the proprietary rights or any other compCtence ltg:islative. auJl droits de pro-rights or pri\•ilege:s of tbe legislature or SOV· pti-~11~ ou 3 tOU$ autrc!t droit!> ou priviiCges ernment of a prtWince 5h.aJI require a re:solu- d'une tCg.i.slature ou d 'un gouverntruent pro-l ion supported by a majorit)' of the members JO't'incial cxigc une rCsolution adoptCe a la 10 of e-;:tch of the Senatt, the Houk of Com· majorite d~s stoateurs. de$ dCput~s fi:d-Craux mons a nd the legislath•e assemblies required et do; dCputCs de chacune des as:sernbl~c::s unde-r subjection ( l ) . h~.gistat i\'e$ du nombre. rcquis de prm•in<."'CS.

(3) At:l amendment r~fcrred to in subsec• (J) La modificalion vis« :'lu paragraphe owo:oo..J t ion {2) sha ll not have effect in a prO'I• incc I 5 (2) est 5ans effet dan.s une prOVince dOfH 15 the legi ~ l :."'th•t :\SS~I'Iibly or whi~b has Fa.sstmbl~ ltgisl:Hi .. ·t a. :w!tnt la pris~ de la expressed its diMenl thereto by re:solution procJarrw.tion. e.Jtprirnt son des.1.ocord par uQc supported by a majority of its mcmben; prior rCsolution a dopt& :i la majorite des dtputCs. to the-iSiue of the proclama1ion to which tl1e sauf si ceue as.stmbl~e. par rC$olution Cgalc· amendment rela tes unless that legislative 20 ment adoptCe :i In majoritt.. re'•ient sur Wn 20 aSM:mbl)', sub.sequcnt1y. by te$Uiution su~ d~saocord et nutorisc la modificadon. poned by a majc>rity or i&S member$, revoke$ its diMCnt and authorizes the amendment.

(4) A resolution of d issent made for the {4) La resolution de dCsnooord vis« au purposcij of sub-section {3) may be revoked <H 25 p0r<lgrapbe {3) peut ~tt.:: re~·oqutc il tout any time before or after the issue of the moment. indtpcndamment dt La date de la proc.Jama tion to which it relate-s. proclamation a laquclle ellc se rapporte.. 25

39. {I) A procl~matlon shall not be i:l:sucd 39. (I) la pruclamouiot1 visee au p.1ragr:t· under ~ubscction 38(1) before the: expirat ion phe: 38(1) ne. peut etre prise dam; l"annCe o( one year from the adopt ion of the rc!inlu· 30sui\'3nt l'adQpt iQil de la rCsolutjon it l'origine tion initia ting the amendment pf'()«:dure de la prod:durt de modification que s i l'as· thereunder. unless the kgis la th·e n.ssembfy of sembli:c- li:gislative de c.haque provi.nce a 30 Co'!Ch p~vinct has previously adopted a reso- pri:ala blement ado·ptC unc resolution d'agrC· lut ion of assent or dissent. ment ou de dCsaooord .

{2) A proclamation shall not be issued 35 {2) la proc.Jamation ,·istc au paragrapbe under subsoc.ti.on 38( I) 3ftcr 1be expjrution 38(1) ne ptl.lt ~tee ptisc que d:ln~ les trois a ns of thrte years from the adopt ion of the reso- sui\·ant r adopdon de ' " rCsolution a l'origine 35 lution initia ting tbe amendment procedure de 1-a pro.::6durc: de modific:ation. thereunder.

40. Where an amendment i$ made unde.r40 40. le Canada foornit une juste oor:npen· subsection 38(J) lhst transfers pro\•ind-:~1 sat ion aux provinces auxqudles ne s 'a pplique Jegislati\·c: powt-1'$ rel;tting 10 educat ion or pas une modifi~tion f:aite confQtml:mcnt au other cultural matten; from pfO'•indal legis· paragrnphe 38( I) et relative. en matii:re 40 latures to Pa rliament, Canada sh>lll ptOvide d'~dt:IC3tion ou daru d'autrcs doma ines cultu· rt-:ISOil.able compensa tion to any prQvinee to45rels. :i un transfcrt de eompCten«s l~g.isla t i· which the ame-ndment does not apply. \'CS pro .. ·inciales a u Parlement.

l<km

41. An ame-ndment to the Con$titution Q( Canada in rel:uion to the following malttrs

41. T~ne modification de la Coi1Stitution co .. w•ttonetu d C d I . . 45un.uolnw u ana a (X)Ttant sur e:s questions su .• vao·

13476

... ...,_,.,."""' by ~~·~I

~--

"""'..., .. ,..,r Pfo)Oi'$io• rtluinCIOlliOff'lf W• n111 t ll ~;~

COMMONS DBBATES November 30, 1981

Tht ConJiilulil'm

may be made by proclamation i:~sued by the Goo.·emor General ulldcr the Grt3c St:tl of Canada otdy "''here auth<.)Jizcd by resolution!i of the Senate and House of Commons aJw:l of tbe legislative 3$Sttnbly or C<'lC:h provi~

(4) the offwe of the Queen. the Governor General and the Lieutenant Governl)t of ;1o

provioce:

tes -se fait par proclama tion du gouverneur gener;~;l sous le. graAd soca11 du C.otnad:!, auto­rtsee par de:~ rbiolutions du SCnat, de la Chambre des communes eJ de l'assembltt

.S JCgislative de chaque province : a) la charge de Reine, ce-lle de gouverneur g~n~ra l et celle de lieutenan,·gotn·erneu.r: b) le droit d'une province d'avoir a la

s

(b) the right of a PfO\'ince to a number of members in tbe House of Commons not I 0 less than the number of Seoators by wbieh. the prM'incc is entitled eo be-rcpresetHed at tbe time cbis Part comes into force::

Chambre- des communes un nombre de dCputCs au moins C8Cll a <:c:lui des t~CnateurSIO par lesquels elle est habilitee a Ctrc reprC-

(c) subject to soc-tion 4J, the use of the Eng,lish or tbe French languag_t; I 5 (d) the composition of the Supreme Court of Canada; and (•) an amendment to this Part.

semCe Jors de l'cntree en vigueur de la prCsente partic: t) S()U$ reserve de l'snicle 43, l'usage du fran~ais ou de l'a.nglai$: IS d) la composition de la Cour supreme du Canada; e) Is modification de la prCsente partie.

41. ( I) An amendment to the COJllllit tH.ion 42. ( I) Toute modification de la Const1tu- ~~~re of Canada in relation to the following mat· 20 tion du Canada portttnt sur les ques.ttons 20:.n!::t. terS may be made only in accordance with sui\•antes se fait oonformCmcnt au paragra-•uboect;on38(1) : pbeJS(l):

(a) the prinCiple of proponionate a) le principe de La repre:tcntation propor-reprc:scnta tion of the province!! in the, t ionnellc des provinOCli :l la Chambre des House or CommOil$ prescribed by 1be 25 commune; prevu par la Constitution du 25 Constitutioa of Canada; Canada: ~ (b) the powe-rs or t}le. Senate and t-he b) Jes pou'<'Oil'$ du S~nat et le mode de me•bod of stletting Senator:~; selection des sC.nateurs; (c) the number of members by whic.h a c) le nombrc des sCnatc-ur:~ par lesquels prO\·ince is entitled to be represented in the 30 une province est h:ibilit(e a ~trt re~sen· 30 Sen.<~te and the residence qualifications of tOe et les conditions de rCsidence qu'il.s Sc.naton; dojvent remplir~ (d) s-ubject to paragraph 41(d). the d) sous rCserve de l'a linCa 4 Jd), la Cour Supreme Court o! Canads : suprCmc.du Cannda; (e) the e:tlension or eAiSting provinC~:s into 35 t) le rana<:-hcmenl a ux provinces CAiStOln• 35 the te-rritories; and tcs de tout oo partic- de5 territoircs: (/) notwithstanding-'">' Other la"'' or prae- j) par dCrog:.Uion ~ toute a utre loi ou t ice, the esta blishment ol new provinces. U$0g_e. In c--rC:ation de provinces.

(2) Subsections 38(2) to (4) do not appJy (2) Lcs paragraphc:s 38(2) :l (4) ne s'appli· ~.,._., in respect or amendments in relatjon to mat· 40quem pas aux questions mentionnCcs au 40 te.rs rtferred to in sutxsection (I). paragrapbe (I).

43. An ame-ndment to the Constitution or 43. U$ dispositions de la Constitution du M.xlitoc:nion J

Canada in relatiOI'I 10 any pn)\•ision tha t Can.ad~ applicable$ ;\ certa ines ptO\'inccs ~C:.:::t <lpplies to one or more, but not sH. provinces, seulcment ne peuvent Ctre modifi&:s que par ,..........,.. inc:luding 4$ proclam:ujon du gouvcrneur gtneral sous le 45

(a) <'In)' alteration to boundaries between grand soeau du Canada. autori-SCt par des pro\·inces. and resolutions du SC:nat, de la Cbambre des

.. COMMONS DEBATES

(b) any amendment to any provision that relate!~ to the use of cbe English or the French language within a provino:,

may be tn.'tdc by proclam:ltion i ~sued by t he. Goveroor General under the Gr.:at Seal ut 5 Canada only where so authorized by rcsolu· t i.ons of tbe 5<-n:atc 31\d House of Comrn-ons and of the legislath·e assembly of each pro~·­incc to which the a mendment ~ppl ie.s.

11u· Ctm.witwirm oommurt'C$ et de l'assemblte legislative de cbaque prC"·incc concernCe. Le prC:sent arti· cle s'appliqut not:.mmetH :

o) :\Ull ch.:lngcmcnts d u trace des front.iC· res interprovincialcs; b) au.x modif'ications dC'$ dispOsitions rcla· tives <\ t•u$3ge du fran~ais ou de r a nglais dans une province.

IJ.471

5

"""''"lmcn.... 44. Subj~o.·-c.t to sections 41 and 42. Partia- 10 44. Sous rCserve des articles 41 et 42. le IQ M(N);fio;o~tilln brf'~•li"IT>f"' • I . fl'i' 1.,.

AII'Wndii'>CIIU t>ypf'OYi~~o:bJ ~r.~

J,;,iniM of lfl'l(ndii'Wfll

~(!!urn

lt.t"<.lQtion of ~"•krimlion

A...:~lll' wl~tStf!Ut t tw!udon

ment may exdusi\'CI)' make laws amending Parlement a eompc:tence e:tc: USI''e pOor i'J.tkMCIII

the CoJsSliU.Ition of Canada in relation to the modifiter les disPQSitiOI)S de la Constitution executh·e go\'crnme-nt or C.unada or the du Canada rtluth•es au pouvoir eJtCCutir f6d~· Scnau~ aiKI House of CommOfl~:>. rut, 3u ~n:u ou :l la Chsmbre des

communes. 15

45. Subject to soction 41 , the 1eg.is1aturc 15 45. Sous rCser"e de l'artk.le 41, une l(.gis· of each pf\Wince nl<'l)' txciuSi\'ely make laws l<tture a o:>mpCtencc. cxclu.\ ive pour modifier a mending the constitution of the prM•incc~ l.n constitution de sa province..

Modtflnuwn owlo ~io! OIIIfd

46. (I) The procedures for amendment 46. ( I) L'initiative des prooCdure:~ de htili~li"tcks

und'r se'lions 38. 41, 42 tlnd 43 mtly be modilic.'ltion vi~c.s aux anicl~ J8, 41, 4Z <-t20~'" initiated either by the ~knate or the House of 20 4J appartient a u 5enat, a la Ch:unbre des Commons or by the Jcgisl:u ive assembly of ;'I communes ou 3 unc. assembiCe ICgi.slative. province.

(l) A resolution or a$Sent made for the (2) Une r6.solutiOt'l d'ag.liment adoptte purposes of this Put may be revoked a t any cbns Je cadre de la prCscnte partie peut Ctre til'fle. l>efote the issue of a proclarnatkm 25 re_,·oquOe a tout n'loment avant la date. de la 25 authorized by it. proclamation qu'eiJe autori$e,

~·1 . ( I) A n a mendment to the Con~:>titution ~7. (I) Oan.s les cas visCs 8 I' article JS. 4 1. of C::~nada made by proclamation under SCC· 42 ou 43, il peut .!tte passt. outre au dl:faut tion J8, 41. 42 or 43 mtl)' be made without a d'autorisstion du SCnat si oc:lui-ci n'a pas. r~lution of ihe Senate authorizing the i ss~o~e 30 adoptt de resolution dan~ un dtlai de- eent 30 of the proclamadon if, within one hundred quatre-vingts joors suh•ant !'adoption de celle and e ighty days a fter the adoption by the de la Chambre des communes et si ocHe House of Commons of~' resolution autboriz- derniCre, apr~ l'ex.piration du d~lai. adopte ing its issue. tbC'-Senate. has not adopted such une. noo\•elle risolution dans le mCme .sen$. a resolution a nd if. at any time after the 35 e xpirat ion of th-at period. tbe House of Com-mons agaln adopts the resolution.

1\oi&ibilitf. ICU'IC;•.1KI•

M«<lr.c:uloa .. ns tokohrtion

"" Si~t

~~:otic.n 111 (2) Any period when Parliamef'lt is pror()o (2) Oans la computation du dtlai visC au 35Co:J:•utillu period s ued or dissolved shall not be counted in parag.Taphe ( J), ne sont pas oompttes lcs "" '"

computing the one hundred and eighty d.ay 40 p~riodcs penda nt lesquclles le Parlement e$t period rcfetred 10 iJ1 subsection ( I), pr0roge ou dissous.

M¥i«l4iss" 48. T he Queen's Privy Council for 48. Le Consc:U priv~ de la Reine pour le OcttUI!ok~c r~~'"'1ill• Canada shall advise the GO\·crnor General tO Canada dc:mande au gouverneor gt!nCral de 40P")''11

""toc..

issue :\ proclam:~tiOTI under thU. Part forth· prendre, oo(l(Ofnltment a Ja prtscntc partie. with on the adopt ion of the resolutions 45une proclamation dts l'adopcion des r~sotu·

134?11

COMiif•!I(IQI oontf,.a.:c

t.a ... tul!f«illl 1'(1111·~'"~' ...... ,.. ·~ fomtf)· ..._,..,~...,

o;:le<lricitl

""""

f!lpon(r­

"""'"'ltl ~ -·-

.. COMMONS DEBATES NO'I-embtr 30. 1981

Tht' Comtiudion

required for an amendment made by proocla· mation under this Part.

tions pr6vues par cette p:Jttic pour une modi­li.cstion par proclamation.

-49. Dai\S lcs qu.inze ans sui,•ant J'cntrOc en vigueur de la pRsente JXIrtie. le premie-r

49. A const itutional conference composed of the Prime M inister of canada and the first ministers of the provinces shall be con­vened by the Prime Minister Qf Canada within flfteen yean after this Part comes into foroe to review the provisions of this Part.

5 ministre du Canada convoque une confCrcn<.:e oonstitutionnelle r~uniss..1n1 le:~ premiers ministres provi.nciaux t t lui-mCmt. en vue du rOexamen des dispositions de ectte partie..

PART VI

AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION ACT. 1867

PAR TIE VI

MODIFICATION DE LA LOI CONS1'1'M!I'IONNELJ.£ ue 1867

50. The ConstltutiQn Act, 1867 (formerly SO. Ln Lot ~tltutlonnel/e de 1867 Mooir.a.eion4:

named the Brltlsh N().rth Amcricu Act. /867) 'IO(antCrituremtnt d~ign~e sous le titre : Ac1e I O~J,.,J<~r is a mended by adding thereto, immediately de I'Am~rique du Nord britannique. /867) ~rt"JfrdttUT after ~ction 92 then::o.f. the following head· est modifiet potr insettion • .aprCs l'artide 92, in& and $«liOn: de la rubrique et de !'article suivants:

" Non· Renewable Natural Resources. f{)flJIIr)l Rti()UrttJ and Ellt'lf'i(tJ/ £m•rgy

91A. (I) In each province. the legist&· tur<: may exclusively make laws in relation 0 5 10

(a) exploration for non-rc.newable natu­ral resources in the province: (b) development, conservation and man.agemem of non·rene"''able natural 20 rc::sour<:es and forc:5-try resources in the province, including law$ in rel.atjon to the rate of primary productioo there­from: and (c) dcvelop«te.nt, conserv~uion and man· 25 a&ement of sites a nd facilities in the proovince for 1hc generation and produc­tion of elt<:tricaJ energy,

(2) In each province, the legislature may ma ke laws in relation to the. e,xport from 30 the prC)Virtee to another part of CUnad.a of the prima ry production from non-renew· able natural res.ource$ and forestry rtoourw in the province and the prodoc· tion from racilitie$ in the province ror t.he 3S generation or electrical energy, but such laws may not authorize: or provide for di.~rimination in price$ or in supplies exported 10 another pa.rt of Cunada.

"R~.foun:es nowrelles 1t011 rtmOJt\'t>lables, ft!t'Wuras /lYt!t'lf'ere$ el ~nergie J/t,•triqul

91A . (I) La Ms.islawre de chaque prO· <'om.llf':'IIC'f vinoo a compCtenoc:. exclusive. pour IC.gife. 15 J:fVI'"'"" rer dans le$ domaines suivants:

a) prospoction des ressoorces naturelles non renouvel~blcs de la province; h) exploitation, conservation cc gcstion des ressources naturelle$ non rcnotwcla· 20 bles et des rcssoum:s foresti~res de ltt pr(Wincc., )' compris le-ur rytbme de pro­duction primaire: c) amCnagemcnt, conservation et ges­tion des tmph\ceence~ts et des installs· 25 tion.s de la province. dt:iltinCs a la produc· tion d'Cnergie Clectrique.

(2) La l<:gislature de ehaque province <' ~tion compCttt\tt pour ICgifCrer en ce qui con- ra.;!t~ Ot-Tn~: l'~portation. h<>l'$ de la ptQVitK'C, 3 30 de!ltination d'une autre partie du CUnada, de la produc-tion prima i re tirl:c des ressour· ces naturc:lle:s non rcnoovelablcs Cl des tes· soutoes fO!estii'res de la province, ainsi que de la produc1ion d'.!nergie ~lectriquc de-la 35 province, sous r<:sen·e de ne pas adopter de l<>is aucorisant ou ptCvoyant des disparitCs de prUt ou des dispari1Cs dans les ex;por~a· lions dcstintc:s a unc autre partie du Canada. 40

~·r ..tl ......

mb.:r 30, 19'81 · COMMONS DEBATES 13<479

I (3) Nothing io subsection (2) derogate$ from the authority of Parliament to e-nact 13ws in relation «o t-he maUCN referred 10 in «hat substc1ion and. where such a law of Parliament and a Jaw o( a province. con· S nict, the la ~A' of P:trliamefll prevails to the e~tent or the. co-nmct.

(4) In each province, the legislature 1\1.3.)' make lavi'$ in relation to the raising of money by any mode or system of taxation I 0 in respect of

(o) non~renewabte natural resooroes aDd forestry resour~ in the pi"()Vin« <tOO tbe J)fimary produccion thcrtfrom, and 15 (b) site,; and facilities in 1he province (<>t 'be generation of electrical energy and the production therefrom,

whether or not sucb prOduction i.s expOrted in whole Or in pa rt from tbe prm•ince, but 20 such laws may not authori?.e (IT pt(1Vidt for tax:uioJl that differentitHdl bttw~n prO• duction e:tportcd to another part of Canada and production not exported from the pr<wince. 25

(5) The expression ''primary prOOuo­tion" has the meaning assigned by the Sixth Schedule.

(6) N()thing in ,;ubsections (I) to (5) derogates from any powers or rights that a 30 legislature or government of a pi"QVince had im.mediateJy before the eomjng into force o( t his section."

Tht' Cun.1·titu1irm (3) Le p•ragrapbe (2) ne pone pas

attcintc au pou~·oir du Parlcmcnt de JC:g_ife· tel" dai\Si Jes domaints vist-!1 j CC paragra· phc. IC!i disp0$itions d'une loi du Parlc:mc:nt adopttc dans ces domaines remportant sur 5 le$ dispositiOII.S inoompatibles d'une loi provincialc.

(4) La l~islature de chaque provi(lce a oom pCten<.:e pOur ~levee des sommcs d'argc:nt p.'lr tout mode ou systCmc. de 10 taxation :

a) des ressour<:c.S naturdles non renoo­velables et des res.~ucces fore\tit:rcs de­la pro'~>'in<:e. a.insi que de Ja production primaire qui en est tirCe; 15 h) des empl0cements et des installations de la provinoe dc::;tinCs a la production d 'Cncrgie Clcctrlquc. ains.i que:- de ceue productj()n mfmt.

Celtc:-compttencc peut s"excrcer iOOCpen· 20 damme.nt du fait que la pr«:tuctioo en cause :soit o" non, en totalitC ou en partie. cxportCc:- hon de la prcwince, mais Jes lois ;Jdopt~es dans oes domaints ne peli'l'tl'lt a utoriser ou Pfe~·oir unc taxation qui ita· 25 blissc unc: distinct ion entre la production eJ~;por~e ! destination d'u.nt auu·e- parlie du O'lnada cl la production non exportCc hot's de la province.

(S) L'exprC$$iOn •production primairc• a 30·P.Nd:o«lna le scns qui lui est donne dans la ,;ixiCme pnntturt• annexe.

(6) Lcs paragraphcs ( I) 3 {5) ne portent pas aueinte aux pou~·oi l'$ ou dtoia d~ttnu~: par la ICgislaturt ou le s:ou~memcnt 35 d"u.ne prm•ince lots de rent r6e en vigueur du ptCsent article.•

SI. The said Act is furt her amended adding thereto the following Scflcdule:

by SI. l.adilc loi est en outre modifiCe par 35 adjonction de I' annexe suiv3nte :

'"THE SIXTH ScHeDULE

Prima')' Pmdm:I/Qn from No11-ReffeM-'abf~ Na1ural R('s()urus and For~stry R~sou.rus

I, for the purposes of section 92A of lbis Act.

•SIXIEME ANNEXE

Production primoire ti_r;~ d~s ft'SSIJUTN!S

notur('/fes no11 rtnOU\'t'lables e1 des f~$$.()UTC('S j()r~.~~~~re.f

I • . Pour !'application de !'article 92A : 40

.... ; .. ~ ... ,.~~, Coud1:11tionof c~..,

(:ttn"i<ll!illlo ut OMdl

Alll(n0MIIl' Ill Cotttitutil'" ;,r c ..... da

COMMONS DEBATES N<wem~r JO. 198 1

Th.- Constilwiun (<~) productioo from a non-renewable natural resource is primar)' productiot'l thtrefrom if

(i) it is in the form in which it exists upon ics re<:o~·ery Of severance frum its 5 natural state. or

(ii) it is a product r<:St,~hing from prl)(• essing or refining the resource, and is not a manufactured product or a prod· uct resulting from refining crude oil, I 0 refining upgraded heavy crudt oil, rtfin· ing gases or liquids derived from ooal or refining a synthetic equivalent or crude oil: and

(b) production from a forestry resource. is IS primary production thercrrom if it cxmsisrs of sawfogs, poles, lumber, "''ood c hip., saw­dw.t or an)' other primary wood product. or wood pulp. and is not a product manu· facturcd from w<.:IOIJ."' 20

PART VII

OllNERAL

o) on entend par production primaire tirbe d'une ressouree naturtlk non re-no.,w.ela· bk:

(i) soit le produit qui se pr~ente $0US la mCmc forme. que lots de son extraction 5 du milieu naturd,

(ii) $Oh le produit non manufactu~ de la transformation, du raffinagc: ou. de l'affin.a.ge d'urte rtssou~. a l't;<teption du produit du raffinsge du p6trole brut, I 0 du r<affinage du p!trole br'Ut lourd amb­ljOfC. du raffinage dt3 gaz ou des li.qui• des dt.rivCs du charbon ou du raffinage d'un Cquivalenl syntMtiquc:: du pet-role brut; IS

b) on ente-nd par pl'()duetion prinuire t irCe d'une rcuource forestiCre la produCtion oonstituCc de billots. de poteaux, de 'bois d'o::uvre. de cope«~u~ . de ~iure ou d'altlt~ produit prima ire' du bois, ou de. pile de 20 bois, ;\ l 'e~ception d'un produit manu fac­ture en bois ....

PAK1'11l VU

DISPOSITIONS GENI'::RALES

SZ. (I) The Constitution of Canada is the 5 2. ( I) L:t CoMtitutiOfl du Canada est la l'r!m•.,:t~dt ta I re d d I h . I . • d C • 11 d. ~ Co~~Ril1o~\ion d• su:preme aw o an~ a. a n any aw t at ts Ot supreme u ana1.1a; e e ren 1no1 .... -ra ntes (;orq•l •

in.c;onsistent with the provisiotiS or the Con- lcs- dispMitions incompatibles de toute a ·utce 25 stitution is. to the extent of the in<:On$iStency. r~gk de droit. of no force or effeet. 25

(l) The Constitution of Carn1da includes ht) the Cano(lu Act, ii'IC:Iuding this Ac-t:

(b) the Acts and orders referred to in Schedule 1: and

(c) any amendment to any Act or order 30 referred to ill parasr~pll (u) or (b).

(2) L.-. Constitution du Canad:) cotnprc:nd : o) la Loi sur le Cmratla, y oompris la p~sentc Joi: b) Its tcxtes ICgista.ifs t t Its dtcre's figu- 30 rant a !'an nexe f; c) les modifications des 'eA1es ltgisJati!$ 4!t dc:s dCcrets mentionn~ ault alinCa5 u) ou b).

(3) Amendments CO the Con~titution o( ( 3) la Constitution du Canada ne l)e'ut JSMilllifk.uiot Canada shall be made only in <lCCOrdan«· ~Ire modiliCe que con(onnC-ment ault pou-with the a uthority CQiltainOO in the Constitu- ''oirs confer&- par cllt. tion of Canada. 35

53. (I) The en;'lctments refc:.rred to in SJ . (I) Les textcs l~gislat ifs et le::; dtcrets Column I of Schedule I are hereby rc.peaJc:d Cnumites 8 la colon ne I de !'annexe I ;SOnt or amended to the c.xtc:nt indic;~tcd in abrog.Cs ou mQdiliCs dans la mesorc indiqu6e40 Column If thereof atld, unle:ss repealed. shall a la colon ne 11. Sauf abr()o8at ion, ils rester1t continue as law in Canada under the names 40cn '·igueur c.n tant que Jois du Canada .sous set out in Column lfl thercQr. les tilrt$ttlelltionrlis :'1 Ja colortne Ill .

Ab"'$dil!a cl POilOa:lll\ dltff

-· November 30, 19"81 COMMONS OEBA TES 1348 1

Can,.:'lu•n~l ~fllmdmmu

Ffl1hllh •mion .,tCun$4illll~ oiC.IIH:I

f 11p,6 al!d fnnch•"f~ll­l)ftwUin OOMiif~l-1 OM.

Efl&lbh ~lld l'«iio$ Yetlioll$ d'llli' AQI

1'11~ C<Nutltution (2) Every enactment. except the CQJiada (2) Tout textc JCgislatif oo riglcmentairc,

Act, that refers to an enactment referred to s.auf la L<X sur lt Omada. qui fail mention in Schedule I by the name in Column I d'un te.xte ICgislatif ou dCcret figurant 8 !'an-thereof is hereby amended by substituting next I par le t ilrc indiqu~ :l la col-onne I est for that name the corres-ponding name in 5 modiliC par substitution 8. oe titre du titre 5 Column Ill thereof, and an)' British North correspondant mcntionnC 3 la colonoo Ill: America Act. not referred to in Schedule J tout Acte de J'Am(.rique du Nord britanni· may be cited as the Constitution Act fol- que non mcntionnc':. 3 !'annexe I peut Ctre c itC. lowod by the. year and number, if a ny, of iu sous le titre de/..,(){ (Y)n.tlitulitmntl/~ suivi de enactment IOI'indic:uion de l'annOe de -son adoption et I 0

CventueiJement de son num~to.

ModiroaUill~ ((l(r&II\'C$

SC. Ptlrt fV i.s repeated on the: day that is 34. la partie IV e:<~t abrog&:. un sn aprCs """-u;.,.,.,. 1;, mod!f..:Atkwu one year ancr this Pari ('()mes into force and l'entrie en vigueur de 1a pr~rHe panie e• le qui~"

this sectiOn may be repealed and this Act gou\'crneur g6nCral pc:ut, par proclamation di...,..l~• renumbered. conscquent.ia l upon the repeal sous le stand sccau d u Canads, abrogcr le 15 of Pan IV and this $e!Ction. by proclamation J 5 prCsc.nt a rticle et apporter en con:~C.quence de issued b)' the Go~·emor General under the oc-ttc double abrogation le.-; smCnagements G reat SeaJ of Canada. qui s'1mposcnt ;lla pr-Csente Joi.

SS. A French version or the poriiOI.'IS of tbe S.S. Le ministte de la Justke du Canada ~~ Constitution ol Can3d~ referred to in e:~-t charge de redi&er, dMS les meilleurs20<~"!l'.:S~~~« Schodule f sball be prepared by the Minister 20 dtbis, la ve·rsion frsn-;aisc. des parties de la <~ilW~ioondJ of Ju.stice of Canada as expc:ditilW$Iy :•$ ptX~.- C<ms~ itu t iQn du Can:·,da qui fisutcm :i l'an-sible and. when any porti-on there<~( suflicient nexe 1: toute partie su(Jisamment impOrtante 10 warrant action bdng taken has been 5<> est, dt$ qu'elle e$1 tltCte. dCposCe pour adop-preparcd. it shall be. put forw;~rd for .:n<'t~· tion par PfOCbm3tion du gou,·c.u.eur &Cntral 25 me(lt by procl.a.mation issued by tbe Gover- 25sous le grand scc:au du C.anada. conformi:-nor General u:nder the Great Se31 of Canotda ment ~ 13 ~dure. applicable :\ I'Cpoquc :i pursuant eo the. pr«edurt then appltc<'tble to la modification des disposi{iOrt$ COn$t ilution~ an amendment of the same provisions of the ncUC$ qu'ellc conlient. Constitution of Canada.

56. Where ;any portion or the Constituti.on 30 56. Lcs versions fra~isc et angl:tise dc:o 30v~"'~' of Canada has been or is enacted in English partie:s de la Constitution du C•ln<'d;.t :.dop-. ~~:i:td~ and French or· where a Frenc.h \'ersion of any tOes dans ccs deux langucs ont Cgalemcot ""·~"' !~JI•• portion of the Constitution is enacted pursu· force de loi. En outre, o.m ~galement force de ~"1•1111"..c:IJ ant t <) sectio-rt SS. the En~ish and French Joi. dC:s l'adopdon, dan~ le cadre: de l'articl-: ' 'ersions of that portion of the. Constitution 35 SS, d'utle p3nie de la ''ersion frsn~aise de la 15 are equally aurhoritativc. ConiStitution. eene p.lrtie et 1,. vcrsiol'l

anglaisc: oorrcspondante.

57. The. English at1d fRnch versions o( 1his Aet are equally authorita tiYC.

57. Les ''erSions fnn.,...ist et ansJaiSt de la prCsente loi ont C.galcmcnt f<Kce de Joi.

58. Subject to $oction 59. this Act sha.ll SS. Sous rCsc:-rve de l'artide 59, Ja prCsc:nte40~•r«u wme into force on a d3y to be fixed by 401oi CIHre e.n vigucut :\ la date lix6e par pro- ..-.a:~~eur prod3mati.on issued by the Queen or the c lamation de la Rcine 01.1 du aouv(rrleur Go,•ernor General under the Grea t Seal of gC,ntral sous le grand sceau du Canada. Canada.

59. (I) Paragraph 23(1)(a) shall cQme 59. ( I) L's linCa 2J(I)a) entre en vigueur EAu«"" into force in te~"ipcct or Quebec on .a_ day tO be-45 pour le Quebec fi la d.·Hc fixtc par proclama- 45 ~;:~IM

.,. .... k Qo.OI«

~'"' li llcimol ~half<w

.. COMMONS I)EBATES NO'I·ember JO. 1981

Tltt Comlfrutiim

fixed by proclamation issued by the Queen or the Gcwern<n General under the Great Seal ofCan:ada.

{2) A procl:unui<m under subsection ( I ) shall b-e issued <.mly where authorized by the legislath·e assembly or governme-nt of Que be<:.

t ion de la Reine ou du gouverncur gCnt.raJ sous le grand sceilu du Canada.

(2) L;l pr;.1Ciamati()JI ' 'i:sl:c :.u p:tragraphc. 5 ( I) ne peut Ctre prik qu'apri:s autorisali<>n

de l'assemblbc- ligislath•e ou du gou,•erne- 5 men• du Quebec.

()) This section may be repealed On the (J) le prisenl article peut atre .-..brogt ~ la day pa.ragraph 23( 1)(a) romes into force in date d'entrCe en vigueur de l'alin6a 23( 1)a) respect o f Quebec and this Ac.t amer1ded ;l.nd 10pOur le Qutbec, et l;t prt~erue lo i fa irc::. !'ob· renumbered, oonsequential upon (he repeal jet. des cette abrogation. dell modifications e t I 0 or this section. by procl:lmation issued by dte ehangemerull de numC.rotation qui en d6oou-Queen or the Governor General under the lent. par prQI.:Iamation de la Re!ine ou du Great Seal of Canada. gouverneur gC.nCral sous le grand! .sceau du

Canada.

Ab«<_ptmdv r ril.l:lllo lliclf

60. This t\ Ct may be cited a.s the C.o1r$ti· I 5 60. T itre <"' brCg_~ de la pr~nt.z annexe: f Sti•rw l t1tion Act. /98 /, nnd the Constitution Acts Lt>i con.ttiw t ionnr/1,. Q,. 1981; ti-tre <:ommun 1867 to 1975 (N<>. 2) and this Act may be de:s lois CQRStitut ionnc-lles de 1867 :l 1975 cited I08tll1er as the COifJtifutit.HI Acls. !867 (n• 2) et de la prCsente loi : fAit ronstllu-w 1981. tlonJtellc>.s d,./8tf7 il/98 /.

13484 COMMONS DEBATI::S

SCHEDULE I

1otbc-

CONSTITUTION ACT, 1981

MODERNIZATION o()f THE CONSTITUTION

Item C.olumn I

Act Affected

I. Brltish North Ame-rica Act. 1867. 30.31 Vice, c. 3 (U.K.)

2. An Act to amend and continue the Act 32-:13 Vi-ctoria chapter 3; and to establish and provide for the GO\·­ernment of the Province of Manito· bo, 1870, n Vice, <- 3 (Can.)

J. Order of Her Majesty in Council admitHns Rupert's Land and the NOfth· Western Territory into the union, dated the 2Jrd day of June, 1870

4. Order or Her Majesty in Council admitting British Columbia into the Union, dated the 16th day of Ma)·. 1871

5. British North America Act. 1371, 34·35 Viet, c. 28 (U.K.)

6. Order of Her Majesty in Council admitting Prince Edward lsJand into the Union, dated the 26th day of June. 1873

1. Parliament of Canada Act. liPS, 38·39 Vice., c. 38 (U.K.)

8. Order of Her Majesty in Council admjttin& all British poMessions and Territories in Nortfl America and i.slands adjacent thereto into the Un.ion. dated the J ht day of July. 18110

Columoll Amendment

(I) Section 1 is r<pealed and the following wbstituted tberefor.

"' I. This Act may be cited as the Constitution Act, /867.'' (2) Section 20 is repeafcd. (3) Cl.au I of section 91 is

repeal-ed. (4) Class I of 11ection 92 is

repealed.

( I) Thoe long t itle i.s rc.pealcd and the following substituted tflerefor:

"Mtmit()/)d A~t. 18.70! ' (2) Section 20 i.s repealed.

Sec1ion J is repeal~d and the following :substituted thertfor.

·• I. This Act may be cited us the Consti tution A c-t. 1871!'

NU\·ctnbet 30, 1981

Column Ill New Name

Const itutton Act, I 867

Manitoba Act. 1870

Rupert 's LallCI and North•Wtst· ern Territory Order

British Columbia Terms of Union

Constitution Act. 1871

Prince Edward ls-!t~nd Terms of Union

Parliament of Canad(t Act. 1875

Adjacent Territories Order

November 30, 1981 COMMONS DEBATE;$

ANNEXE I

LOI CONSTITUTIONNELLE DE 1981

ACTUALISATION DE LA CONSTITUTION

Colonne I Lo:i vlsee

I. Acte de I' AmtSrique. du Nord britan· nique.. 1867, 30·31 Viei., e. 3 (R.-U.)

2. Aete povr amender et oontinuer J'acte trente-deu.x et trente·trois Vtc­tOtia. chapitre trois. et pour ~t~blir et constiluer Je gouYernemeot de la province de Man.itoba, 1870, 3l Vic:t., c. 3 (Canada)

3. Aw!t6 en conseil de Sa MajcstC admeu.ant la Terre de Rupert et le Tc:nitoire du Nord.Oucst. en date du 23 juin 1870

4. A.rrttt en conseil de Sa Majeste: admettant la Colombie·Britann.ique. endatedu 16mai 1871

S. Acte de I'AmCrique du Nord britan· nique, 1871, 34-lS Vkt., c. 28 ( R.•U.)

6. Anil~ en conuil de Sa Maje:stC admettant 1'1 1e-du·Pri~£douard, encbtedu 26juin 187)

7. Acte du Parlement du Canad~. 1875, 38·39 V~ .. c. 38 (R.•U.)

8. ArrCte en conseil de Sa Majes.t! admettant dant l'Union tpu$ fes ter· ritoirc:s et possessioos britanniques da.ns: I'Amt-rique du Nord, et les ites adjacenteS ;l CC$ territoircs et pos.se&·

sions,endatedu ll juillet 1880

Colonne U Mod.ittcation

(1) L'artic:le I es1 abrogt et rcmplaci par cc qui suit :

•'· Titre abreae : LAJ t!()IUti ~ tutlonnelle de /861.• (2) L 'article 20 est abrogC. (3) La catC:gorie I de l'artide

9 1 est abrog«M (4) La eateaorie I de !'article

92 «t abrogie~

(I) Le titre complet es-t abrogC cl rcmplaci p3.r cc qui suit ;

•WI Je 187() sur I~ MutU­toha .. • (2) L'uticle 20 C$1 abrogC:.

L'artic:le I est abrogC et rem· placC: par ce quj $Uit :

•1. Tint abrtae: Lol ronstl· lutlonnelle de 1871.•

Colonnc Ill Nouvtau titre

JJ48~

Loi con.stitutionndle de 18.67

Lot de: 1810 sur le Manitoba

Dectct en conseil sur la terre de Rvpert e.t le tcrritoire du Nord­Ouest

CoodiliOO$ de J"adh6sion de la Colombie--Britannique

Loi COrUtituliOnf'ltlle de 18.71

CondiliOJJ$ de i>adbesion de l'lle·du· Prin<:t· &touard

Loi de 1875 sur le Parlement du C3na~

Decret en consc::il sur lcs territ<>i­rts adj~ccnts

.. 13486 COMMONS DESAT~

SCHEDULE I

totlle

CONSTITUTION ACT, ! 98 1-COI1tinw~d

Item Columl) I

Act Affected

9. British Nort h Amc:ri<:a Act. 1886, 49·50 Viet .• c. J5 (U.K.)

10. Canad~ (Ontario Booodary) Act. 1889. 52·53 Vict.. c. 28 (U.K.)

11. Canadian Speaker (Appointment or Deputy) Acl , I 895, 2nd Scss., 59 Vict., c. 3 (lJ.K.)

12. The Atbcna AC:l. 1905, 4·5 Edw, VII, e. 3 (Co:n.)

IJ. The Sasbtch~·an Act, 1905, 4·5 Edw. VII. c. 4 2 (Can.)

14. British North America Act. 1901, 1 Edw. VII. c. 11 (U.K.)

IS. British Nortll America Act, l91S. 5·6 Geo. V. c. 45 (U.K.)

16. British North America Act. 1930. 20·21 Gco. V. c. 26 (U.K.)

17. Statute of We5tminstcr, J9J l, 12 Geo. V, e. 4('U.K.)

18. British North America Act, 1940, H Geo. VI, c . 36 (U.K.)

19. British North America A~. 1943. 6·1 Geo. VI, c . 30 (U.K.)

Column ll Ame.ndment

Sectjon 3 is repealed and the following substituted the.rc!or:

''3. This Act may be cited as the Con.~titution Act. 1886. ••

The Ac.t is repealed.

Soetton 2 is repealed and •he rollowing subst ituted therefor:

"·2. This Act may be cited as theCon.uiturion Act,/9()7."

Sectjon 3 is rtpe.-.led and the: following subs-tituted therefor:

.. 3. This Act may be cited as tbc Cbnstilurlon A-ct, 19/5."

Section J is repealed a nd the (oiJowing subst ituted therefor:

"3. This Act may be cited aa •he C(m~·IUutiOn Act, J9J()!'

In so rar as they a pply to Canada.

(a) sect.ion 4 i.s repealed; and (b) .$Ubsection 7(1) is repealed.

Section. 2 is repealed and the following subst ituted therefor:

"2. This Act may be cited as the Com·ti111tion A et, /940."

T he Ac.:t is repeaJed.

November 30. 19&1

Column Ill New N3me:

Constitution Act, 1886

Canada (Ontario Boundary) Acl, 1889

Alberta Act

S askatchewan Act

Constitution Act, J907

Con~titution Act. 1915

Constitution Act. 1930

Statute or Westminster. 193 I

Constit u:t ion Act 1940

NO\'embtr 30, 1981 COMMONS DBBATES

ANNEXE I (Juirt)

LOI CONSTITUTlONNELLE DE 1981

<:oJonne I l..oi viste

9. Actc de I'Am.trique dt.~ Nord brit~n· nique. 1886, 49-SO Vict.. c. JS (R.-U.)

10. Acte du Cansda (limites; d'Ontario) 1889, 52· 53 Viet .• e. 28 (R.-U.)

11. Acte oonoernant I'Orateur ca.nadien (nomination d'un suppll:snt) l89S, 2" session., 59 Vice. c. 3 (R.•U.)

12. Acte de I'Aiberta, 1905, 4~5 Ed. VII, c. l (C'3nad;~.)

13. Actt de la Sa>katch•wan. 1905. 4· 5 Ed. VII,<. 42 (Ca nada)

14. Acte de l'Amt:rique du Nord brit.an· nique, 1907, 7 Ed. VII. e. I I (R.-U.)

15. Actc de I'AmCrique du Nord brit3n• njque. 19tS. S~6 Gco. V. c. 45 (R.-U.)

16. Acte de l'Ami-fiquc du Nord brit:tn· nique., 1930. 20-2J Gco. V, c. 26 (R.-U.)

11. Statut de Westminster, 1931. 22 Gco. V, c. 4 (R.-U.)

18. Acte de I'AmCr.ique du Nord bt"itan· nique. 1940, J-4 Geo. VI, c. 36 (lt·U.)

19. Actt de I'AmCrique du Nord britan· nique, 1943, 6-7 Geo. VI, c . 30 (R.•U.)

601().6- 19

ColonM 11 Modificatkln

L 'article l est abrog~ et rem­plaoC par cc qui suit :

•J. Titre -abtege : UJI con.stl· tutiomttllt de /886.•

la loi est abrogk

l 'article 2- est <'brog~ et rem· pJacC par ce qui suit :

.. 2. Titre abrtge. : LtJJ cOIUti• wtion.nellt- dt- 1901 ••

L'article 3 est a.brog! e1 rem· place par cc qui s.uit :

•3. T1trt abrtg~ : L<>l C()n.Jtl• tutitJtrM/J('dt /91J .•

l'articlt · 3 est abroae et rem· placC par ce qui suit :

cl. Titre abrtgt : Lot' «msti· lutionn~llt Je 1930 .•

Oan~ la mc:sure oU ib s'appli· quent au canada :

a) !'article 4 est abrogC; b) le pa.ragr-aphe 7( 1) est abrogC.

L 'article 2 est abt~ et rem­plate par oe qui suit :

•2. Titre abrCgC: Loi t:Oiuti~ tutiOifncllt de /94() ••

l3 loi est -abrogtc.

1M Con.witutian

Co1onne Ill Nou\•eau t itre

13487

loi constitutionnclle de 1886

Loi de 1889 sur le Carutda (fron· titres de !'Ontario)

Loi sur I' Alberta

Loi sur la Saskatc.b"'·an

Loi constitutioni')C-IIc: de I 907

loi oonstitutionndlc: de 1915

Loi constitutionnellc de 1930

Statut de Westminster de 1931

loi constitutionne.llc: de 1940

.. 13488 COMMONS DEBATES

Thr CurwitutiQfl

SCHEDULE I 10 ltlc

CONST1TUTION ACT. i 931-Continu~d

Column I Item Act Arfceted

20. British North America Act. 9-10 Geo. VI,<:. 6)(U.K.)

1946,

21. British North America Act, 1949, 12-1 J Geo. VI, c. 22 (U.K.)

22. Briti$b Norch America (No. 2) Act. 1949, IJGeo. VI, c . 81 (U.K.)

23. British North America Act. 14-150eo. VI, c. 32 (U.K.)

1951.

24. British North America Act. 19S2, I Eliz. 11, c. 15 (Can.)

25. British North AmerK:a Act, 1960. 9 Eliz. 11, c. 2 (V.K.)

26. Briti$h North Amerk.a Act, 1964. 12-IJ Eliz. 11, c . 7J (U.K.)

27. British Nonh Ame.rita Act, 1%5. 14 Eliz. 11, c. 4, Part I (Can.)

23. British North America Act. 1974, 23 Eliz. 11, c. 13. Part I (CAn.)

Column 11 Amendment

The Act is rtpeJled.

Section 3 is repealed and the (o!lowing substituted the~(or;

.. ) . This Act may be cited as the Ne"*'foulllllaltll Act.''

1ne Act is repealed.

The Act is repealed.

T he Act is repealed.

Section 2 is repc:aJed and the followil'l$ subctituted tbereror-:

.. 2. This Act may be dtcd as the ConslftutiOII Art, 1960."

Section 2 is repeated and the (OJiowin_g $Ubslituted t h<:tefOt!

.. 2. This Act may be cited as the Constituaon Act. 1964."

Section 2 is repealed and tbe following substituted abcrcfor:

.. 2. This Part may be cited u the Constitution Art. 1965."

Soction J. as amended by 2S·26 Eliz. 11, e. 23. s. 38( I) (Can.), i.s repealed and the fol­lowing substituted therdor-;

"'3. This Part may be cited as the COJUtitutl'on Act, 1.974."

NO\·embtr 30. 1981

Column Ill New Name

Newfoundland Act

ConMitu'tion Act, 1960

Constitu1ion Act, 1964

Constitu~ ion Ace-, 1965

Constitution Act. 1974

.. Novtmbc:r 30. 1931 , COMMONS DtiBATS$

ANNEXE I (1uile)

LOI CONSTITUTIONNELLE DE 1981

Coloonc: I Loi vi~e

20. Acte de I'Amer~ue du NOrd britan­nique, 1946. 9-10 Geo. VI, c. 63 (R.-U.)

21. Acte de I'Amtrique du Nord britan­nique, 1949, 12-13 Geo. VI,~- 22 (R.·U.)

22. Accede I'AmCrique du Nord britan­nique (N• 2), 1949, 13 Geo. VI, e. 81 (R.·U.)

23. Acte de I'AmCrique du Nord britan­nique, 1951, 14-15 Geo. VI, e. 32 (R.·U.)

24. Actc de I'Amtrique du Nord britan-­nique, 19S2. I EJiz. 11, c. 15 (Canada)

25. Acte de I'Amiriquc-du Nord britan· nique. 1960,9 El i t. 11, c. 2 (R.•U.)

26. Acte de I'AmCrique du Nord britan­njquc. 1964, 12-IJ Eli1.. 11. c. 73 (R.·U.)

27. Ac1e de l'AmCrique du NOfd britan­nique. 1965, 14 Eliz. 11, c. 4, Partie I (Canada)

28. Atte de l'Ame.rique du Nord britan­nique. 1974, 2J Ellz.. 11, c. 13. Partic I (Canada)

CoJonne 11 Modifteation

La loi est abrog«.

L'articlc 3 t$t abroa.C. et rem· place par cc qui suit:

U. Titre abrf:g! : {,()1 sur T~rre· Nruvr.•

La loi "' ab<~•·

la loi w abrogCe.

La loi est abrog:Ce.

l'article 2 est abroge et rem· place par cc qui suit :

.:2. Titre abrtg~ : I.A>J CQ~Utl· lutiONttllt dr /96() ••

L'article 2 est 3brogt et rem­place par Q: qui suit :

•2. Tim abrtg6 : LoJ COIUII· tutiOn!N!flt dt /964 .•

L ·article 2 est abroae et rem· place par «qui suit :

~. TitN: abrfg6 de la pr~· sence )'3rtie : Loi c.r>ns-liluliorr­nelle dt 1965.•

L'article 3, modifi~ par Je para· 8Japhe 38(1} de la loi 25-26 Eli· zabeth 11, c,. 28 (Canada), est abroge tl rempl.acC par ce qui suit :

•l. Titre 3br~6 de la pre. senle partie : Loi COIUtltutiorr• nellt: dt! 1974 .•

711c- ComtiJutkm

CoJonnc JU Nouveau titre

13489

Loi comtitutionnelle de 1960

Lol CO«'lStiu.uionnelle de 1964

loi OQnStitutionnel~ de 1965

Loi constitutionneiJe de 1974

134~ COMMONS DEBATES

SCHEDULE I to the

CONSTITUTION ACT, 1981-Conclud.d

Column I Item Ace Affected

29. British· North America Act, 197S. 2.3-24 E.liz. 11, c. 28, Part I (Can.)

30. British North America Act (No. 2), 1975, 23-24 EH<. 11, <. 53 (Can.)

Column 11 Amendment

Sectiotl 3, as antended by 25-26 I!Ji.z.. 11, c. 28, .s. J I (Can.), is repealed and tbe following sub­S-tituted tberefor.

"J. Tllis Part may be c ited as the Comtilution Act {No. /J, /97S."

Section J is repeated and the followina substituted thertfOf:

.. J . This Act may be cited as the Constltui/OIJ A c-t (No. 1), 197$,"

Novembef 30. 198 1

Column Ill New Name

Constitution Act (No. 1), 1975

Constitution Act ( No. 2), 1975

November JO. 1981 , COMMONS DEBATES

ANNEX!! I (/In)

LOI CONSTITllJTIONNELLE DE 1981

C~onne I Loi vis6e

29. Acte de I'AmCrique du Notd britan­nique, 1975, 23-24 EJiz. 11. c. 28. Panic I (Canada)

)0. Acte de I'Ameriquc: du Nord britan­nique n•2. 1975,23-24 Eliz. 11, c. 53 (Canada)

Colonn.e 11 Modification

L'artide ), modifie par l'articlc: Jl de la: loi 2.S.26 Elizabeth 11, c. 28 (Canada). C$1 abroa;C et rem­pia« par ce qui suit :

.:s. Tilre abrege de la pri· sentc: pa.rtie: LoJ· cOIUtitutU>n­ntlleK I de 1975 ••

L'article 3 est abroge et rem­place par ce qui iuit :

•3. Titre abrCge : Loi c.onJti­turlonne/le If" 1 de 1975.•

Tht Com•f•uti()lr

Colonne Ill Nouveau titre

13491

Loi comtitutionnelk: n" 1 de t97S

Loi constitutiooneUe n- 2 de J97S

.. 13492 COMMONS DEBATES NO<rembc,r JO, 1981

·rJr" (;qnslitutiOJI Hoo. J .. ;, In (Pnl•ct~eMr) : Madam Speaker, I rise to

pQrticipcue in this debate ooce agaio. Subject to tbc- Hou.ii: order that w3..1 a&reed to unllniln()ll.sly oo Frida)'o on behalf of t he Con.scrvat iV<: Party I intend to move att amct'ldmtnt. I shall rtad 11 first so tb:n me.tnbc:n ()( tb.:> House ~n be ~Wiln:l or ii.J CQnt«~tll ~~nd pmibfy t.he rca.son$ for the argument beins made. Maybe tbat is a t"A•ist or an initiatjve tbat has not beet~ too com.mol'l In this House, but I • ·ill du it thl•l v.·uy tocby. I IT'!(WC;

Thai l)c f'IIIY"fll C<-n,tluniot Ml 19!1 ~ •nre~oltoJ bS mlt.:h" 1Nl Cla~ AO ..,; tubltftvcina the- (.o(lo•ina::

«). l.fl lk tw:nl clou t s:<<.l¥inoc (li~I'J (11.lln u om~dma.t wn(~rnrc. '=$0l~lt.c ,;...w;rtion 1111 Puti.Jmf'l~. 1h~ OCIOctlllllefll oi'C...,..d• lolulll pt<Wkl=: I'$UONbl~ ~s.-du Ill l!ic ~\',_.111 .-.r d~t pf'i:NiiOi)r, l:lldnt In!>) tcoou•'ll tile pt:t ~pil:o ~*' tu '""'~ d111 juti)CI;..oo., in lire rcvoiii<W w!mh ll .. c "l'l'rcwcd ti'K l ll'!(ndmcnb

Members of t.he Hou.\e' ...,.ill re1.<tll th~ «:umment~ the Pri~m: Ministct {Mr. Trudcau) made in this House oo Friday. I bave tetcsd his tCINtks this morrtiJ•g. He il\die41tod that be. 'olo·ould be receiving'' llctcx fro.m Pn:.micr t:kooeu, the ~bni rlllO!In of the prcmie111, indicating. tbat they ha-d two points of \'icw in mind. First. tbey did t~Ot wtun tbe. ~COOt"d to be. btokcn; SC..'Xll'ld. the y did 001 W'.llnt an)' furtbcr nmcn<.lmcnt~ 11 i.:s important thnt "''t!

cons.idCf tbili telc.x i.n the oornexc in 'A'bicb it was made.

Nocbwitbstanding the Prime Ministct's oommcnt~ Qn Friday. I ctul.n.ot belie~ t.h.u be oc lift)' of d1e prtmict~ of tbe signatC)f)' pr1.111inecl nre •'iltins: IQ (QrSO .-n oll'P"'rtunit)' 10 improve the resolution to the point w-bere tbc province of Quebec mig,lu be able to sign d1c aooatd. Eve:ry me-mber or 1.his p.&rty is coru;erncd thal tbe accor4 rc~min. We do not "'·:..nt to bteak the accord. Nor is it oor intention today in moving tJtis amt'ndrutr'lt. whieb we ~rUer told :.11 parties we would lUO\'t~

in any wu,y to jeopardile or weaken the ;u;c;Qrd.

his imporlt•nt that all or us rocog.nize that mcmbc:n of the Canadian Pa1l iamcnt att· p:~n 6f tbt ptoot:S.'I o( coustitutiooal <:b;ange. h mu$t be c:kmrl)· undtr$t()Qd tbut il ilS not only th~:. prcmier$-Qit.b.oosh it is t.hcir dcci:s}on and their dccisioo ooly whetbtr they ,.'tnt atly k gislative actiofl in tltelr legislatures rr&arding the ConlllituliOO- bol <tho membcr3 of this lioo~c wbo must undcmaOO tbal P.uBamem is not simply a by:naod· e r waiting to u;~bbe~sump that whkil h:u been ;rgrted tO.

Tbi:s i;s oot t:hc time to address the qUC$Iion of fcdetaJ·pro­vinriaJ confetti'ICCS a.nd v.·bat effect the.y t.:n-c in tc:nns of lbt­parliarncnt.ry prt)l:en in (:;an;ub, Th.\t i~ for <\Potha di&)'· I am sure thut tile premiers fuJiy recognize that the Parliament of Canada has a rcsp.:~RS.ibility !11\d, deipite the Ptirne Minjs. tcr'll rcm:lrb Oolt F riday, t h;$ p;•r1Y JSI IC.11St in tend$ ''·• fulf\1 its te$poMibilitie.s i.n this House.

Mr. Epp: h U al"o lmpot"t;mt t() re('Qi!ni..:c tlut tbc Acoord s.igncd ()n .Nove m ber 5 kft i~ door open for the Pri:me MJni$tct and thi~ Parliament to n~ake acoom:rnod:uioos to Quebec "''biC-11 would put forw:·u'd :m olive bruc-h, if )VU like. or the p~ibilii)' of the people of Q~;eb« reeling that tfl.ey ,.·ere pan of lbe accord a.nd the resolution tl13t ,..ill so to \Vtst111lMt~r ltlter. T!1:1t U the llpiril in whicb we prc:;en~ the ••mwdmcn' tod01y.

Whcd1t r th~ pttstnt ~·c:rnmcnl uf Qu-ebec; hlllS JIIIY in tcm· lion ()I ~lgni 115 t.hc acoord is u point tbat I "''ill ooc a uempt to argue today bul i1 is oor resjXlosibility IU pmct.ll() the. J'II!Oilk of Quebee :1 oe~oluti<w• Umt ls gc-'ltnlly ~cc:eplabk- to ih«n fx:a.t~W: it addre~es the traditional OO OCC1'1U of Quebeoers ;U)d

go.-cmmcnts past.

I .~ll;aU go on w ttrgu.e tbttt our eonotrn i$ not t(llcly with tbe provin«" or Quebec bu1 n1lhet wi~b the ptO\'inocs ·of Canad3.. csp:dally those that noed e<1uatiz:ati01l, bc~use: t he. amending formula mu~t sef'\•e. aU of C~n:tda f<1r- rmmy y~mrs 10 <:ome. I am sttt-s.>~in& 1 1~1 it is an amendment nol directed $Oiely arKi Mly to Qvebcl; • .1hhovgb obvioosly i1 :.ddtesscs the questi.:.n that surrounds thll l 1)1\lvio~-e·t ;,bility w join che ~~.c~rd; this ao1endrncnt i.s 1>~ tbol is unit·ersaUy applicable to 311 pnwincc~.

The amendment that I propose will reim~t)(l.ucc tQ the Constitulioo 's amcndirtg fortnula a rc--asooable fin::ut<'ial com· ptru;atioo 'u provirrc.:$ QPting oul ()(a "'il\mtkln wttc.n: p<)YI'i:r8 or right-s held .since oonfcdetotioo arc INnsrerrcd to the ocntral g<wemmcm i.n Onaw:t.

'r11.<0 powu must be 111ad.: at the (lu tset. Fir~ I. ooos-titutl(ltlal amendment~ to whicll rcs.sooable li na.nc;~ l compt:t~5n t ion will 11pply are s-triC!Iy limited to tJ1e oootcnts of Section 37 or the rdoluti•>n bc::rnrc tLS. lt is impc~<rt:ml that C:lnadians Undc-,... 3tant.l lbol we are not proposinJ fi nanc;ial c;ompeli$Oti.<.Jn to ;my ptO\•in~ wanting to be :tn obsLacle to :~wy future. eomtitutional Clung<:. lt .1pplies only to the Cal o: af proprie tary r ighu of :1

PfO\'incc or ochcr rights of a le,e.isl ~ ture, riabts I mu.s1 re~l aod etnpbasfze granted to the ptO\inoes by the Fathers ol Con.fedcro•tioo, ;~nd to powc-~ bdd by tbt prc.win;.'d ""'h\'rC' rcaso.lnable fiBOnci31 compensat;oo eou.ld apply.

I believe it is u l~o i.mportlln t to und.trlluc that this would be d1e only situation "''bctc a pr<Win" l.'(luld op! out :'!nd reoeive. oompen.'lation. 1t 'I'"'Uld Mly be where tll<*e PQVo' t:('!S b11ve been, in (;'Id, trln\S(Cr"'-"tf ;~nd whac· t hose po.,.,'<lN b1wc ob\•iously btell held by the pr,y.·iru.x:s e.ulicr, Ortint <)ut and finar\clal compo:ns;nioo cou.ld •~ever lead. tn my mind, to k$$ ;Stni)(Ludi· u.tt.on or gr~;uc:r dccC'ntmti:(.:UiM 1ban Wt- have ia CaBOda today. a•ld I intend to e:\plain thul. We w()uld lt..\'c-:. situatiOtl

No~mbcr 30. 1981 • COMMONS DEBATES 13493

where. in.s.tead of 10 dirtc:rwt $11U1d.trds.. there miebt be two or three or four. Additioll8Jiy, ptO\'inoes whieb bad not opted in 10 a transfer of jurisdiction could., at a ny later d.llte, decide: to opt in. They coo.ld do th~t ;u Any time. HO'I\•ever, once any prorlnc:e agrocd to transfet it~ j tuisdictiolt. it could tbtn not

opt out again. In otber • •otdll, oace in, one could not get Qut.

Therefore. I "'()Ciid $lJIIUt that it oould e~ntuaUy lead, wnoerning issues J will point out, i() grater $lllndarditatlon. for example .• if 11 pr<n·inOe refi»Cd w tr&n.sfcr powet a nd the JICOille Q( ttlu province bep.o to be upset that ~Y did not sbare the salllle staM:atds ot arran,&eruenl3 UJ two•thircb of tbe r"'t of Ca~t;ada, tbey would obviou.sly apply preMure to their 80\'ctnm~t to opt in, lO have tbc. same beneflu and the s:ame. conditions. fo.r e:\ampk. 'III"C h~-rc already secen the abilit)' of pi)JlUla.r ()pinion 10 pre.ssui"C premien~, tbe provi.oces 2nd the Prime Mi.nis-ter. NC1>'tt bas that been mc:ne C'\'idcnt th<~~n, for example, with Se..-tion 28 ~~ond S«tioo 34 last week. Tbe«:fore.. ~~~ pr~"r' bu ttban.gQd tbc miDd of (fie PriDK· Minitltr on an issue which. h2s been 1-try ocniJ'~ I to bis udmini.s.tnuioo and to the ~tiC>n in which he &ecs himself i.n h"torical tttl'lts.

On the other band, i.f the- people of tbc: province- were eonvlnetd th:1t the provtn« could look after tbe area with w}tic;-h tbc)' 'lll'ef'C dealing faJ better th3JI the ftdetal govetl'l· ment, ••bo COI.lld say tl13t tbty "'CI'C "'rqn!'! Why sbould they theo n()t le:h't tbe r.n.a ller witbi.n pt~·i.ncial jurisdiction? Opting <!01 and finand.aJ oompensatiOfl provide 2 procecti>On for the unique. cbat'ilcter Qr every proviDCe.. a uniqueness wbich "~~~~u r«ogni~ b)' tbe founding fatbm ol CoofCikratlon, not onJy because of the spociaJ ch.aractt::t or the pl'ovtnoe of Quel>ec, r sug,gut to YQUr tlonoor. but abo ~u&e or tbe SJ'l\':dal cb:u~~ell of tbc prcwinoes of N<vo' Scoc.ia, New Bru.ns'lll'iok and Ontario: atld abo, I t;uggtSt, the spe<.ial ooDdi· dom ~vaiJing in the prvvincc:$ 'lll'hicb eiHe:tcd coofcckration after tbe ()f'i,ginal four.

(n I'll}' carUer remarks, I $l1id t hat our ~mendment did n<K 11pply ()nly IQ Queb«. In fact, t his party has always beetl conQCrn<:d tb8Jt there be a S().C8!kd special st.:lt~as for a.ny provinec .. H()Wever. it ill tmpori.Mt thttt ""C look at wbat prote~ion tbis amendment would, ift fact. give to tbe province­of Quebec. A! my leader sal.d in ht1 rcm;uts a r~ d11ys ;~so. I, fot OM, am ~ .. midc.nt or that prQ\•inoc, so s.ome membell in tbc: Hou.se might a.d:: wby I am qualified to spc:.1k on this issue¥ l say to th~tm tbllt I lxliC'\"C il is importllnt tbat bon. memben frotn different prO"I·i.noes relate to the iS$Ues wbic:h ure of importa!Ke in otber provillces.

ThcrdMe. I do IW)t believe I ba\"C to be a Quebooer 10 understand the si,s:nmcance, fot i.nstatlce, of Aft artkft in Saturday's lA PMs~ whete the Quebec Liber.tl leader, Mr. aau~ Ryan, ra-caled that in hi~ \'iew it We\$ no4 the intention or lhc Prime Minister to n.pproacb pov.·« sh3ring witb tbe­provioc:es in a genuine llpirit. lo re-.tdina that article, QgebcOc~ I'IIUSI sorely have ~d renewed dollbts nbcMit the real int«1tion11 or the federal • . overnm«<t in thjs whole constitutional t.letd:so. Tbose are not any words but l11e scnlimcnu exprened in th:1t article by Mr. C l:tude Ryan.

1"A~ ConJtiUttiO#t Th«efore. fAQCd witb the pi'Ofpec1 o-f «''ltl1oliu.tion Of powet

in Ottawa, the protettion of reasona.bk: finaocial oompe~~sa· tiort, J btUe\'t, ill very impot"trun w this dt:bate and to the future o( Ibis country. Tbc qu~tio:n tl:I.O be u.kcd as we address it. Does Quebec ot did Quebec have 11 veto? If I correctly undutt:tnd t~ Premier o( Quebec, ~Ut is:sue will now be taken by that CO"I"Crnmcru to t he QOCIJI.$, Howe¥C:t. speaking as only Ol)t membct of thi::l House, if Qu~bc:c d~ hu.ve. 11 Y"eto, I &c:riOI,I.$1)' quqtk:Jn wbethter that Wll$ nQt $erlo!Uly jeopardized by the sigfting of tbe accord of April 16 last. Tbat is a per10118J opink>n. Howc~r. rcgardJM of whdher or 0011 that province had a

veto. I bcJi~ that full proc.~tkl«'' ls anotbet issue~ WhM Qoebc:c .Jisoed the aQCord o( April 16. I know it d id so on tbe uOOerstandin.g tbat full ~petliation would be sivM if, in (it<:t, poweri 'III"Cre tra.nde:rred rrom tbe proviDe« to the <:entraf JQvemmeot or tbe fedcnd ~rnmenc here in Otta•·a. h was a provision of tb.st April aocord to .,hich all the signatori-es pvc A$$C:nt at th;t time. Tbey li:new tb;ll finnnd~l C001pen5a· tion for any pro'l'ifl.oc not opting ift t:o constitutional amend­m~ml$ takin& a~y tbcir ]uri~iction was an intrim:ie ~Jement of ~~~ .tmet~dina formula • ·hich rec:opdud tbe equ.otlity oltbe ptcwinecs for the first time.

We <)fl tbi\ $ide of the Hou$C:., Qr, 1t I JelQt, 'fi'C:-ln thi:~ p;nty, have araucd fOt the cqlliiJity o( the provillOC$, We ~nnot bave a federation If different ptOViflc.e.s ar~ created with dj(J'ereat sund;trd!l by which they can e:pply tbeir $tren,gth and power to tbe amending formula. Addit iomdly, tbe Premier or Ontario fe!OOStli:ltd tl~ equality of all provl:.noes in tbe NO\'ctnber eonrerenee when be volunteered to aiV"C up Ont.ario'' veto. We: all recall tbat action as u auempt by that premier to 8Ct aft aOO()c'd whkh \\>'OuJd coll!CI'ude tbe p~s.

Today, I beli>ev-c tbat since we ha.-e the April ac:c:ofd ~nd the Novembet aeootd. DO province can: now object to financial oompeiJSatiQn on $Ubtsiantive srooods bceau.'e.,. In one. way or a004her, the)' bave aU agreed with tbe oonocpt of tbe equality or an pt"OYillCd. If .sll proviDe« are ~uaJ. lt foiJows tlat eomtil\ltionu.l protoc:tion Q( their tJadido~~~;l juri»dietioo m!J.:S.t thCJefote also apply to all proviDCes.

SIJloc November s. und aaaJn w!M:o he. arne-into the 1-Jowse immedialely after tbe accord 'lll'aS sia:nod. tbe Prime Mioister ha.s s.sid he is williftg to bave oosoing talks: with the ptOVifloe o( Qucl)cc in an a ttempt to l'ind agreement on the C:Onl$titutionaJ aoootd. The Premiers of tbe provinc:a;, in their c:losinc public Shlttfl'le11ts o( November S, ca\'t. the Prime Minl$ter c:om.ider· able I;Jtitude in pul":luiog diliCuS~Jk:lns with thllt provinoc. Jt i.s imperative that tbc Prime Ministct we tbat froodom to act before. tbe resolution becomes patt of tile COf'lstitution.

Hoo, memb<:rs or the Holl5C may or ""' not remembet tbat in order to cba.n.ge the ameodm, formuta. unanimous conrsent of the· province. and tbe (ederal g<we:rnment will bt t'U(uired. Unanimous con.sent is 11 standard moc::h more ~ric:' tban tbat whicb •·M imposed on liS by tbe Supretl~ Court in it.s Sepc.em· ber dcci!lion. lt i:~ "stand~~otd y,•hich tbc: Prime Minis:ter hinudf bu formetl:y called tbe "t)'taDft)' of unanimity"',

, .

13494 COMMONS DESA'I'ES November 30,1981

TM Comtlu;rton Tbtte(.:»re, I nnt tQ cmpba3iu to lion. merobc.rs in t he

Hou1>e tbat if some constitutional arrang~mcflt fot ref.sooable financial eo•npetl!l3t.ion U c:Yer tc:1 be worked out, it must be ~c now before the rt$01Ution is paMCd here.. because in the ruunc. wbet~ the u.nar:~tmit)' ruk: ~Kill apply, r bdie\-e h wUin<iC u t e place. At tb;H $l<t&e, oooKnt <Jf on.ly oDe pnwince would be nccdod to cha~ tlle armOOing formub. Using the Prime Minister'$ own arguments, I believe. we would then b#rt a "DO'' from at lca.st onoe ol tbe provioecs. lf tbc government really w<~.nts to bring into tbe accord the only provi•.CC· wh.ic-11 is still outside, or, at ~il~l, put fon••ard the Qlj~ l.>n:&nt.:b to tbe people ur th•t proviaoc whQ are stiiJ outside, I .wggest tbat it s.hookf 6o it no-.·. In the. futurt il m2y be- too l:ue be<autt .:~ny provi.w:-~h.nit()b;&, l'ril)(,:e- Edward Wan<J, Ontario-could, in fac.:t. bloi::k. «ba« attempt. I bclieve this ts the tilne lot Ottawa to prove its. good f.alth to Ill~ people of Que~c.

I abo want to cx.p!u.in 1.his proposal to the ~ritiQi of 1be pr~l. One critic, who was quick offtbc 1natk, and wbo hai criticized it oons.isttody, h;,s been the k :ukr or the New Democratic Party. Tbis amernfment bas somehow been inler-­preted a.s in\'Ohing so1ne kind oi i..cc11Uve fOf province:~ where­by they wou.ld be able 10 opt out or I."QI)sti tutio.,a l a(I)Cndl1!cnu more allily if tbey were ~ompcnsatcd.

• fUlO)

11 h\1.$ :al$0 b«n said that financial oompcnsstiM would be an inoeoti\•e to aiJow ricb pi'<W'inccs to prtvent eumtitutiun~~J

an:'le~tdnle-nu by Qptil!g out. Wha1 $CC:nt$ clear to me is that rich proviJK~ do noc need 3D}' inccntjve bocaus.e they are already r~b. fin~utcial compensation is n<1 lncentl~ t<> a ptO\IU.ct. "-'hicb " <::ipn&l.e of beins ~ielf·svfficient from its own re<r<:nve ~'e. h can already affotd to finaDCC· its Owtl urtique programs w;th or wltboout fin:utdal O()rn~n~tiCJn. 11 is only an incttulve for prQvioc~ wbicb t~re $hOr1 of revenue aod oeed equalization.

I beUCV'C the le;1de-r of tiK New OcmQCr:~tic Pany k.:n~11 tbnt, if finarM::i .. l ()(.1(11p<:ns.uioQ •·ere deniod eo poor provinoces, we woukJ be sa)'ing in <ffoct "'lt's too bad you're p<>Or but ~·t won't do :.nythlns abo11t tk:n; y<IU'II j n$t h;l\'e to give up th:at juri~K:dc:m to Ouaw" if you a..n't afford to rel8jn i t'". r s~eu to the kadcr of the New Den\Oer:stle Party tJtat be­rt·e.tarttinc. tbe. S<l:iltem.entll he h:111 m:ulc.

He has also r:sistd, as ru,~ the !'rime: MinBtcr llnd hi11 £l1Jl'P(Irten, the CODCepc or a cbockerboard Caooda. M:t.)' I remind the~ttthat finaneial compensation Is envis:3&i.'d or.ly t<w cot~stitutional :'Uili!'ndmc11~ • ·hieh would oentr;aJite power in federa l band' by tr.Jnsferring juriWfction from tbe provinces. for instance, tbe)' use the art:umezst of medlc.ue. let us look at tbt atgun.enL Tlscy -"'Y t.h:u if the trM!Sfer of fnCi.iic.ue tmd tate:n pl.aoe, it "''OUJd b8vc been pre\'CtUtd were financial COJnpell$ation offered to proviooes t10t opting h1. to tJ1e first place. medjcsre Is a prQS.rilm in a f.eld of prvvindal jLJri::;dic• tion, bt.>th now u.nd when ii was introduced. On tbe one band, heahh care in Ca.nada is a c.bocketbootd because ttn prO\IinciaJ gO\'etftltlenti re~.a.in jurlsdK:tkm fc:,. it to thi$ day. All my c:oUaaue hat 11:1id. tbey .uJI run it di.tlerently and you cannot

have a cbockerboard g~tcr than that. But oo the other band. lit~ fact of~ cbeckcrbootd, M tbt}' call h. did not prevent the d~~lopment or, in tbe Prime Min.i~ter"s llllt£11>!18t\, .a "nati<Jn;~.l will" as far as beallb care is ooncero«<. The realit)' of medi· et~ today ii tbat 11 govemmttlli in Canada a«ejlt it beca.use they naree .. ·itb ii. There is no ~beckerboord. yet health e.1re i:s. the responsibility of ten diffetet~t provincial ~rnmeau.

Before leaving tbe ex:t,mple of medicare, I want to make. aootlser point. In ooo .\enSc medicara;. tu use tb :u argurnelll., t .. a compktcl)' fa.lse iss~~e in tbe eootext of finaociaJ wmpc:ma· tion. because it ctme about historically through the t~se of tbe (edcr:ll $pending PQW« . not tllrooth COnititutiooal li(I)Cnd• mcnt. It is imporcant that C\~ryone uockntaod that di,tioo· tiort. People sboold oot bavt 3 ftM that i uddenl.y social policies or IIO(:iq.l prognms will di;sap~r fre~m the SOCnll: bee;HI~ tbe~~C wete affected by spending powe1 rather than oonstitutional (:bange ..

Mcdic.ve ""M n<JC made poss.ibk thro11gh o QOn5titutioMI ameOOment: h wai btou,ght about tbrougb 'tbe use of the federal $ptnding p<w.•er. And wh:at w:U the· prln.:iple, at lea.tt in pen, (lithe u.se of the spendjng power'! NQt aJI ptQYincc:s oould afford niedicare.. so Ouawa used its ftMncial resou«ts eo M.'li$t tl::lcm, "fh:lt ill the-same Jl"inc:ipk bo:hind liJ1211clal e<.lm• peosa1ion. oothing else. Not all pnwin~ can afford to ell.er· cise cettain of their co•tsthution:tl responsibilit ies at t be same kvcl as Othcu- witJIQUt :lll~iU:1noc fmrn tht «ntrlll ~-:n• ment, That does nO* mean lbllt the division of powen; i5 wron.a-; 1t s.inlpl)' rt:l~tls that DOt all ptO\•inoes ha''t a self-sufficient rr.scnl c;ap.,<:ity.

Financia.l compensation is a mechanism en.abfini them to ~uin a hist<M'k:tl jurisdlction when that Is in the best lntettsts of the people or a. proVince witbout incurrblg :1 financial penalty for doing so, without havillj to boy tbc ti,Jht to go on cuercbing tb:at ju.risd:ictioo, • •itllout subjecting t booe chittt~s to $011)C kind of dowble taxation. We 00 nQt Jl'9p0$C lln inocntive for rich ptovinces: I repeat. they ate altead}' rioh,, tfley do not need ~ny inoc:nti~.

Before lca~·ing ·medicate.. I want to put a hypotbctical $itua· lion tO tbe Leader of tl1e New Oeauocr.uic P:arty. McdiC1!1re """<\$ 001 introduced throogb CQMtituliCJnal amendment. Sup­pose it had been. Suppose lhat ralher t.hao u.s;ing the. lcd<rlll $Jli:tldlng pow~r In health cal"t Ottawa l1.1d siatpl)' asked tbat heohh C8.tc be tnnsfetTed to (edcrnl h;uwk.

le4 us take tbat b)'potbeticaJ c:asc. An NDP ~~rnment w;u i.n power in S:ukatcbeontl at tbc ti.llle. 1t w:u in Sa .. d:atdl­ewan that medicare Wtl$ btlfn. I 8.$): the J..qdcr or the Ne•· Oemocratle Part)' wltether it 'o1•oold have oome. or come as !11)()n, if S:•lll:atd:'leW:In lud Mt had j utisdiction O'lo'tt he.thh. And I a.sJ; bim flmber wheth!cr Sa.~k.:attbe•·.an ~o-ould h11ve C.(ttdsed its jurisdiction if, throog.h the a b&c:oce of fi9Cal compenll3tiOn, it b:ld ~n fotctd to tlcotpt a COIUtittllional traMfu first. Wo11ld medicare b;•vt '1>11'.1" ubcKJt in that prl,lY• in.:e wbet~ it did? The situation is hypothetical. There arc no ckfin.iti~ un$weril. But I llll.gttit t6 tbe Ltad.er of tltoe New Dcmoctati~ Party tbat the u.raument lull tQ be n:mck ..

.. Novemb« 30. 198! COMMONS DEBATES

Jf t he te~~oder uf the New Democratic Pany wants to argue that $OCi.al programs "'OOkl be pre·vcnted if Ottawa d001 not have consthutiOtla.l ju.ri,;dicti()n Olll'T them., I beiM:~ he 1$ denyina t.be hi11tory of mcdigrc. 11 began under a ptovino;:ial government and ·sprrod across tht latld, a.ided by tbe· federal spending pov.~r. If lllrOush tu~l c:Qmpcll$1lti()fl. provinces. wi.S.hins te> W $0 can exercise their jurisdiction without ftnao · cial pu~alty. tbe same situatior. can oocur again. In the •nt3n· time. Otta·...a rd2ilt'l its $pending p.:rwcr -.nd t'o:&ll l,ll;C it le> e.n<:OU"'-Be proviDCu to proYidc prograw in thcir jurisdiction .,_,bich arc nation:alln cl~rtiCh:r. I bcljl:\-e th2t it the-ncxlbility u( (~r.al.i3m. ~nd 1 bcl)evc that is I be rea.son Can~d.a •-ork.s as a nation.

I said ~rlier thAt the provin.QC$ <~nd the resi<ln~ ;arc uniq~ in mall)' ways, but we should 001. in oo.r amendments here attempt to bring about s Ot'letlellt or a Ulrntne8i, d}'ltclally Jn thtse art;U witll whK:b we arc dC~,IiJl' tod.lty. I beJ~ve it is impor1.1n1 to &how tbat provii'IOC$ and rc@ioos can be unique in roan)' wa)'S because. our amendment has beco fnttrprt'lcd t;u-z.e.ly as11n overture-to Qu~.

I sa)' to mcmbcN or the Hotuc. tltat this overture is not ocly to lite prOYiDCt· or Quebe<. lt is not tb:lt 'o\' C: 'I&';! Il l $0tnt $p«:ial $.1~11» r()l" tbat prc.wi.nce or for any other PfO\'iJlQC-a.nd ( 6o Mt. wish to dweJioo tht q:~Lioa of sptti..;l ilt&lili fM Qutbtt .. That is Mt my point. While it i:;~ pt:rrectly l)bvi<w1l tlut Quebec is unique in many w~ys.. it is most tmique i~t areas of cu.h\Jre and langu.a&e. aDd tbe resolution provMks for that shuatlon. NeYett.heleu, it is unh·c:n.1Jly aoocpted tbat the: Constitulion tihould make p1ovisi<>n for tbc free cxpte&iion of Que~~s vntque ebara«er.

What "hould be cquaUy obvioos, tben. is that otbcr PfO\'· inoc:s arc: unique as 'llo'CU. albeit in difrettnt 'o\'ays. The genius of Canadiail ftdtra.lk tn b that it allo\\Oll all res~~~ and provi~Kct t1> elJlf'~ tbcir individuality or ~ ba''C: their spccjal rc:qui.rc­menb met without preventing tbe. fret ex:ptess.ion. of otber provinces and • ·ith<lut pc-eventing the dcvcl()pment o.f a n~tion· at •·in. fin,ocia.l compensatioo captures that genius of fed«aJ· ism and c;(presscs it in a tecluti~l way.

My ooUeasae 1001yt it is P""ibly the Canadian "''11)'. What we arc tryin& to remove i' tbc fest or a province nyi.ng no. By saying n.o it "'wld ha"e. tJte pr<tbl~m thw ()( a popul;atkfa whkh would 1111.y: "Tra.nsfer your power, ~use if you do not transfer your ~·er, we will mu h:3...e t.bc same rightt and tbe sa•~ social polides tJ~t Ca.n.,dilll'l$-;n tJt.bet proviote$ enjoy-.

If tbe House: agrees l\•ilb t h.i!l amendment to ptO\'ide finan• cl:tl compc0$:1ti(m to ,.u provinecs, I bel~vc: it makes set~se to e..'(pand it beyond the area or educational and cuhural manc:tS. At I lu'<e satd, tnedi<:arc and otbcr rionecrins $0Ciat provam$ might n~'er h~.-e b«o implemented had jurisdiction betn held in Ottawa. I am oonvioecd that is the: ease bt<::tu$t 1 ba~ stt:B the .wsptc:ions, re-:tn and diliK:uhie.i th~t e.x.iJt in fcclend•pro­''i nci~l rdntions oo bo4.h sides or tbe table. Nor does it make any sense to lim.it financial conlpetlilltion to Quebec. White-we :\re mociwted out or J'l kli$C o~ju:s.~ice~ ror tbat prU'~"inoe and it$ people, we do not want to stop short of j~lioc (Of ~·ery

province aDd fot all dtiuns of Can11da.

'fJtt COIISiiUIIiOR

I rc:mi i'M.I t.hi$ Hou~ tl~t when .,.e. In tbis party speak of justioc fot tbe pt<Winoc:s.., we bil\'e in mind ju$tioe .fOf the people of Ca112da. -.-•bo are son.1etimes better 9en·-ed by Ounwa aod at other times bcllcr serwd by th~ti r pt'~inc:es and legjs.latutc:s.

This issue has been dealt •itb at koath in committee:. In regard I() tbe llf8UJtlettt or 11 ch«:kerboard. white it was made $1rtl\llW1liY by member$, induding the bon. m~t1nbct fat lin· ool.n (Mr. Mackasey). on .sober &e~;ond thoustH, W.ll we rc:fkt1. on it J~nd at we Joot at tbc: n~· a.mettdillg fonnula today, it is important for 1.1$ to rc:wgnil.C t hat whiJI tbis :.mendment would do is In fact not ereatc special status, it • 'OIJJd noc create the c.bc:ckcrOO.ud c:(fect tb:.t S()mc: peopk feat, but rather would provilk tbe equality for all prO"'incC$ wbicb we seck.

&M.t '-on. Mcmkrs: Hc:o~r, bt:nr!

• (U'V.I

Mr. E4ward Br0141ll«<t (~U-)! Mr. SJM:alcer, all partla in the House and the n.ine ptovincial gO\'ernmc.nb b~vc avecd there it~ a great d~J in. the ooos.titution:sl resolution which "''ill bellCfit all Qln:adiaos.. HO'IIo·c:ver, "''C ~11 k.Jl(lw it c:ont:1ins cer· tain flaws, mall)' of them rather important. So far in rc:spon.1c to thi$ re:tlity -.-·e h:we improved fll(')«<)(:. or those naws by produGinc po5itiv' ~;bnnl'3 elfe1.iin:g tho; ~~&~~_l ity o( -&'00:11:n :~tld equality fot the abori$ioal peoples or Qwadu. However. in dl.e3C fin~! days (>r thi$ h~toric: delnte more needs to be done; moreca.rc needs to be given to •·bit we arc: abovtiO t'in.ish.

At tbt: rime of tbe. accord sll three fcd~traJ leaders upres~~ed concern about tbe absente Qf Qucbo:'$ lli~tlire. All wnt­serious aod all three .said greater efTous •'ere: required. The s<Jvernmcnt rctpc:mckd, ( candidly say. by ofTc:ti.ng finaMiaJ ()QJ11pefl98.tjoo for ooostitutional e:}l.-ngc:s i.n. t.be cducati.oo~l and euhural don1.ains.. Although this w.u otre:red all prO\•inoes.. what I w~nl to $tre;.; ill tbllt no oae i.n thi:$ country is u.ndtt any iUusioo tbat Lbe real reasoo wa.s to come to BJips with Quebcc't~ Jegitimlltt:· and bistoti.c: concerns. More. as I have said, needs. to be: do~ in tbi5 dire~:dun .

Soolt' Ca.ll3diaDS bave held the view that, no m;~tter what is included in the- coo«ltutiOOIII re.rolutioo, the pl'OVinct- ()f Quebec would not na:rcc:. Tbe ~~ leait~matc: rc:1S:<In for thit~ assumption it that tbe Pani Qu6b6cois. ooostituting a pern· roent committed tO I'(:IYercignty•:aliSOc:i2don., woold find it virtu· ally impossible- to PQtriatc a ~stitutioo tbut remains federal ln oatu~. I c:tnd.idl)' uy that my O'A'tl di!position bu been o{ this l:il)d, I lul\'e- t~aid, n!lll I repeat now, that I 'Ao'Uuld ~ suipriscd. pJc:asantly 50. to find any proposa.l -.-·h,ich the present g<Wemrnent of Qtiebec "'oo5d accept. Nonethtlc~t. J !ISVt repe3ted t'o\'0 fortbc:t points si!K'e the

~y of the ~cx:ord with tbc: prqyi,ncct. We in this Parli.amcnt atad we in the pr<Wi.noes or Canada outside Quclx<: m~.t:.s.t keep tryin.9, to perSuade tM govertul'leot ()f Quebec. on tbe ooc band. witb reasooabk oiTus; but in the firn~l ~:~n~:~lytiil the toal mullt be to have. a proposal that g;aim tbc suppor1, to Ut~e a.n old phriL,'It., or the hearts .and minds of COfittmpotaty Qucbtttt$, and lbat is QOmp.nibk witb fcderu lism-c:omp:atible with n.:.Jmaining CtiBtl<la-1!:\'c:tl if it is rejected by the present

.. IJ.OH COM•<ONS DEBATES NOI"Cmm:Jcr JO. I 911

n, C.o.utlr•JIOilt

JO'IWIIMfU Of the Pf'O"'ioce o( ~. Out JOI) ln tlti$

Parlllli'ICnl in thC!Ie last days ol debue mlolll be to cccaYIDCt QIHbtcett •ho bdicve in a fed«a l Canll.d• thlt wbll we. da1i"' 1, a scnu.indy renc'*·cd fodtralis.m.

S.•• ._, Mt•krs: He.1r, bear!

Mr. Broa• .. •t: Today oa bebalf or my OOrllc•a.uf!l I want to mah 1itdl • ptOpOUI CM'! the 1me:!Klina form11la, and J bope it 1t one the p.wc:rnment wiU oons:ider very teriOIUJ)' before rqeJUq a rtnal diOCisiocl. J alto bOpe i• tt 01141 which wiJI ObLIJo I be •ppon of tbt orfJcial oppolitioe. h m•J1 meet, for me alld fll)' oollqpc:a. lbrc:c im.port.a.At lti:I.S'! 11 .... be oompatibk widll fcdcnliula! it tnu:St be ~tc ill ~i"' the tqiti•tC' ~• ot ()laeboc; ,a ic. m• be tlaibk cooq)i &o c-.bk nQ7 prori.oc:c ud * fedua:l ~· to lMorrah! le the ,.,.,.to ptOII'ide a n:~Cn" jqt ~,.. We atlbt e.w a m1cwcd ftden.U•m tblt QUI 00t1tiaaaUy provide for a 1n0« cqllitlblc Ca1111da, 8cfo~ turnUt, to my specir,c pNpa~al I would lib now eo

di.C111ta tiN: ame!Miment just propoMd by the Prostq~Jfvc Cun .. lt':t'f'ldvc Puty o( Canada. Ill a aptceb M Friday, Novctnbcr 20-ond lll.il wu "Jcrml tC) rn the- fJlOC'Ch ..,.c havo ju.u kar4-tba Leader (I( the orr.a.al ~tion (Mr. Clark.) Mid q•lte clu.rJy tbat P.tt llamcnt s.hould auempc ca brldrc the cap chat niJlM wbere ~· haw. and f quote: -<M-"'*· ·· lk Cirl...dltrn .,_..._ 111111 1.1ot nine ,..,..nu....,_ tt·•a••-.,. a -...ncr. 011tll$411.., M lioy .,...._or.., ....... U.

_,....,.,. --~-·---)· Tltc &..e.dtt o1 tbe Oppor;i• thca •aatC!d ~~ c tk way to

l:lriQc:i lbe pp il IO illchde ie the OMlhhttJoul ....rlll& tor.•b tk trotul .ms out torm•ll t,p'«d 10 by tile P"f•Mc~tt ol QINI:Iet ad uvm odacr prorioca rut April abowt • llicA lw: con«tty ftOfed the tolto-i"'- alld apit~ r qu01c tiN: Ua.ckr ot the otf'icial (}ppotitlon:

Qw!Mo llld -,;.· .. , ib-ri&k I«~ h ..... .,.,.... .. -~~u ... ,., • ffiiMI!tW. 1...,.111• of (.,W (ll;tfflpiCINtiofl fut pt'O'I'I-.. • flo t ll- IUpt Olfl, lft.t.t li, . ... do:kk - 10 ~ t 10f1S •Id! IJio OI.MIIitllllo1tt•l tll'ltl~. l l k ('l)i'IIIN!I '-cJ•Iedft lllt l lllio I IIINntct .t f 111! l'iK'I'I Wlllf'OIIIIIItl .... Wol ... 1111!1

Nlil*lll •11)' Qo•b.t l it -.I lbl -f'4. 1t \0'110 ti~GCIIIOMQII I(~ lll&t iftll~ ... ,.,..._. .,."' •i!Wr .. n. Qullb« -Id t t,lect 1 ~c • "*11 110 IMt I.UIIIJ u.ar, COin,.... liOn c.& f/l lk tooord ,. .. IIMtoo- •• ""Oiot 011tbf0 NI ..... lllllnt10.

I llfcc witb aU or t.bo6c: WOtdi uttered by the Lct6e:r of Lbe Otnclal Oppo10idoo. The Le:e.der o( tbe Ofrteilll Oprx-idon.. 1 a6cl, bowe'lw, qs pt.tfcc:dy CICif'T'tCll ill 1hil auc.rtion, He wu q11it~ riabt to poiJit tbi:s importa.ot hii;toric ,.. .. ,, Olfl 10 tlltt: ,... olu. Soet olld wae wdla ... re o( it. H~. wlt.IJ lbc: l..cacla cltbt ~ tlloltM haw;

acJckd nt U.t lM: owuwlldtahf..! teUC~a ud JIH&I.I'inll.iol re. tWt JJifOPOU.I•as nOt tiAt lbc- GM)oriry of the pOtlciC'lt$ wu:ccd the opdq 0t1t riaht. but bocauc: of tbc Mcd to rapoGd pwitfvcly to tM pl'Ot'iru::t {lr Qucbee, they WlliUrd to prootJcle tor rll(af compcn111tion if. as a res.h or IC\'Cn l!aalitl't.,PQtin£ prOY(ft«< arwf the Gow:rnmcnt O( Can;tda l'l..ll'fttn& 10 tratUft:r pro~h.clal jurifdictioo to Ottawa, Q\lcboc: w~~n ted eo fl(lt out. Tlwlt, J toy to bon. members of this House, b chc rtality whi.:h the Lt1H.Ier ol tl~oe Opposhi<WI failed 10 mentkltl in hill Jpe«b in che ll01ue Juri a week. 9$(1..

Jt is dear to the New Democ;:n~tk Party that if we •OCCfll optln.g o..n witll nKIIf compc:Matioo to •11 ptovinors we hue a putcntia,l threat ht limhln& the ability .,r the Oo.-ernment ur Canada in either malntainiR.I aurent ootioMI proarum3 or equaUty ot lnltJatln& 11ow ooc:a such a!l, (Of' example., o guaron .. teed ann~;~ul income which flU• within provii)Ci:al jurUdiL'I iQn,

• (l,..,.

At a ~eMral pi'OpOllitkltl. tlle Govemmc:t~t of Ca11ada ('aM<>e jll:Stify ita i11vol~mc;nt Jn • natioaal program in • 'hkh itw raponsibilltict 10 the citize.na woUd VJl}' from Pf'O\'iacc tO

pnwinec. cw. thow,&JI it wa et'tt'f dtizca ia Ca.rwt.a. In additi!M. it aU prori~~Ca oo.N Gpl out ..;th limadal ClOIIIfiC'I· atioa. what incnd.a WOIIN &be« be Cot *' ridl ~eo respoad paRtr.dyto ~ *lltOIUI pn~&nms .eh as a ,..,..., teed Ul'l:ual illoomc Jllf'Oit&lDl

I acrtt with the ~. IIIC'mbcr wlao spch. a few I!IIOI'l'lftlts a.to tbal tlw $f'CIIdinJ powtr or the frder.tl gow:mmenl ultimouotly forccd medicate co ('O«<e in i.n the- pro'lioc:c of OnJuio. Bttautc ot the spending fll)wcr 61 the JoYttrt~Utnt atld tbc: o~etl:lppina jurisdta ional authority at thllt time, thatllit~tion eD~~blcd the gov?fnn:.e111 to do it. I Ja)' to lhe hon. member who hflll jun llpoken 11h:u I 11m floCIC 11lklns about prot,:ranu ill wltlf.'lh the FocJer.tJ spending f'OWU 11l0no it uppJk:able; l llm t11.U::ina 1100111 ptogra_IJJS ift • •bleb tbc:n: wouJd bavc to be a tratuF« or jariWict"'ulautbonty trom th~ prcwil)(:d: •o t.he G<wernmf"nt of Canada. That k erldil to lbc arcumeoL

As a Cuadita allld one wtao (llll)d'let from a wealth)' (lf'O''i.n.oc. I ay that cM rid! PfOti iK'C'II ••kl i:IIIC'ritdlly opt 0111 aad t~ poom- majority i• ottr OOMUJ ..,us MJrer. &e. ...:n ibni­ublc-thh k ttllldalto lk ..._,. o1 fcdctalisal io lK ya.tt bqwd ck tv.m oltlll atllt•ry-betaux of tt.e libll.hood ol the rich JWoY'-ca optl"" out. tllcy -oeW effectiYdy till ru,. tbcr ft:ll;gnal in.IIDQtlO~t • hkh couJd be proloucsdfy impote.nt for a bi.ah ~~ of equal u.itccncc and apcrienoe ((• Ca1\11di• aM from coast to c:<~Ut.

J.n thort. if wo 8CQ:fn the Cowa!lt:f~ative am.eMment, In nty judcmcn t the resull would be cilher a c:heck.crlx.IMd CuMda or tbc: stau.u quo, and l suy chat in all Jinoerity,

Rat~ than joop~rdl1.e Che pokiibWty of furthc:r in"'W11tkln which ooukl prxwide for • lnOf'C equ.aJ C.Mda, I 01ppcal 10 hoft. members to eoMider an allerMtiYe which hooostly aiM! tpellly lakC$ jJitO .OOOUI'It iOinc:thb\1 wbic:h '!lt'C btve aJI bO'IOo'n ror )'CIIS. and Lhat is that cJic: 110ique CIOIJIIil•tioo&J ilfnft&Ctl~ta • -bida bil.e extdcd fOt Qwebtc ~ ooN'tdcraOO. s.bocMIId a..cl cu be akOdcd •tthorut d.ma;&'-s Olll dsrrit.~ fcdetal uioll. lnd«d, I HQ:CII IMI tile cM.aae I prop;:J~e c. bcMtl of my C!OIIicasecs will c&wpce t.ht pou.ibilicy cl uity pr«Drly because it is Jrovlldcd on t.hc fiOilioft oltbc- cquaJ "'-"' of out IWO &re:!l ct~Jtutrt 10 Oovris~ iaoovatc aDd inovi_Jonte OM

anooch.er i1t • COit!l-titlltlonlll nruchnt lft wbidl the majonty cuhu~ gu:arwntca pri)totfioo to tbc minority • .,..htlk righb to nourish nre 1notally eq1~1l to tboec of the majority,

I want le> rc.mind tile HOIUCI thllt :all rederal J'l:lrt.lcfl 11114 \'ittually all thoc provlnclal premkn Aid at chc lime or che n fcrcnd11m that at thU *' in ou.r billtOI) we mui"t undef'e

November 30, 1981 COMMONS DEBATES 13497

!lt:iDd t11:tt Qucbcoc ill unique. By tb i.so I mean-and I bcljeve most Ol.hers, in di$Cu:s:~in! thcsitua1ion. meant- that Quebec's. uniqutfll'S$; dift~J$; in kind (mm thnt or tbe t.1niqueocss or <l4h<:r regions or Ca!lfld:t. lt b ctrt.a inly the c;I ~C: 1hat tbe pJuiri~ diiTer from British C~un1bia. that Ont:uio differ$ from New· roulldl•nd and. iiKI«d, tho!! NewfouDdland i~ Q.uite differ.:m from the «her Atlan!ic ptO\'inccs.

Bc:forc discussintt Quebec in jX'rticulsr, I would like h> l':IY t~t not Qnl)' are tbe differc:noc.s 3$ I ll:t'i'C described tbtm ln terrol! 1>1' l)llr human experience. either as poUtlci:UIS or as C:•nt~dian.' tr.,,·clling in Ell$1isb-spea.king provinces. btu I am pleased t.:l r1o1t: th:1t t hey ~ve been portta)"Cd by such distin­guished Canadian writer.s llS Margan::t Laureoee-. Miss At"-'ood, M()(dc:C:ii I~H:hler uOO Qth<:rs who are now on the world stage of Eoglisll Jiu:ratun::. They h.-ve portrn.yo:d the dh-eMiity <11 l:tngli$b Canllda, that ther<: is no sueb thin~ as a mooolithic Eng.lish Con:~da and t11at Y."'e art fin:nlly beginning to well u.ndersta•td~~s m~ny people in Quebec. I am pJca.s<:d to .~ay, :ne beeinnine to unders.Land-that this- is so. ('ThuulmtonJ

As we alt blow, ot1 thit last point. Qvebec's dtu3til:m is unique and different frqm tbat of p_ny otber province. This fact is rocog.nizcd not only b)' intdlec•u~k ifld in t11e ~epin · RoOOrl$ feport. but al.w by m(l:l):l C.antufi~tJS from evtl)' ~J,ion , lt ha$ :llf6 been recoenizcd by former leadcnt of all p.ttties.. I am thinking oboul Roberl St.:aofidd .:and L~ter H. Pe:lr$1>n. TI!C' lau.:r m.ado!l :1 ilt:nemcnt wbjc:h has IIOW.' become a d ic:bC owd '~~>'hicb t~impfy mca.nt that Quebec was not :1 p;roYinct like tbeotbc:rs..

Queb« is tbe main centre or French tultun: in C:tnada. excluding the ltargc. uu.rnbcr or fr.:tnoophoDCS io New Drun.s.­?.'iCk, Ont;,rtQ, Manitoba .tnd c:Jse'~~>'berc. This dlffctence this rich cultuJc inspire us. and tbey are :use1s whkb we ;~11 sh.;l re· a11d cherish. N<l o) nc ~ h<JUid t~refore be w.rprised to find tbat, Sllrroond<:d t>,v nng.lophoac provinces a.lld over 200 .ntllioo Am<:ricans, Qucbc(tts art n'IOre :nomrc (I( th<."ir colko;:t iV'C exist · ence, f>f their differences n11d of the llccd to procor:t theiJ culiural cJt:istenee thon oth~ Can.t~d lam. F4r tlte:j~ re:'U<Ins.. Qutbcce:rs ,....,nt to be: pm1ectcd try Ql.tr ConsliiU·tion. lf ~·e fail to uDdc:utand this rtality, .,.·t fa.il to under.;UJI)d Q~;~ebQc: ;~nd to undersuand CaMda . If wt fail to rntet this nei:d, we :ilh:'dJ be doing 11. d i»crvice to Quebec and to Canada. I tl~~trcfon: n"h'e tbe following u.meodmeot to then mending formul>t. f[:.'ngli$/t}

I l'llO''C, scoot~dOO b)' the bon. member f~ Hamilton Moon· tain {Mr. Deans):

1\~1 t ho; ~ Cor&ibltio. A{l of !9ll t 11'1- l mrtultd by:

A~nuldill,r. •11~ ~l1111 0: M r. ~ ()( Nou:mt. ... 30 .....:!lllilll! ~ motiun of Mr. Clltilia lho1 iln ~ddteoio hi" f<'lt·"·"t~d 111 tkr MJjuo.r rtotu~inc l.bll o - uure ~ lll~tal btt'~~« t lo: Pl<oti•-=nt or tk l.._..W Kin~ by ~~i~11 <IUI.in lM Ant llfl<' . .. ,. ~(lVIII«'- llfld '"~lil0110f, "'lk l'n:l'o"i.n<ccufQou;:!.;oo".

The> CtHulftutiM

Some ho•. 1\ff'•Hrt~: He~JI. bel.lrl

• ( l »)t

( T ran.~luti(m)

Mr. Dr(lolld'-e• l: Thf..l comtii1Jtilw1:1l eh;ange '~~>'ill hlll't pooid..-c rtiul ts fo.t ~nada ~Sa wbok. HlstotlcaUy, Quebec has ahto'II )S h:td a veto to oppose any change proposed by tbe rest of Canada. Many Canadians have objected to 4his veto. aOO rightly so. Our amendm<:nt would take 8'~''8.)' this \'Cto. Briefly put. it would allow seven PfO\'inco:s or more to trAMf« tuea.s or pn;winci~l juri~dtc:,ion to Ounwn with (M" witho111 the nJ!;rce­ment qf Q~;~ebcc. Pluvincet> with ll.n En.gli.t;h m~jOrity would be :1ble tu inntrv;He in <X)nStitutio~1 mauer.l. However, aur iunendmcnt 'I'Wid all()'~'· Quebte lO ktep lu traditi<lnal powe:rll ~"lthout ir'IWNill$ Sti Y rinandall06$. Thl$ amendn-.ent does oot give new poYiers eo Quebec and ft would ooc entail any additional C.'(pc-!lditurc:s ror cbc oth<:r CaoadiallS.- h would simpl)' allow Queb:xers to retain what tbey already "ha~ and wi$b IO retain, h represents 11 positive option for Quebc:ceN. Sucll an amendment wo11ld pn,IYicJ.e $Cc.:Uri ty to Queb«ers witbin Co•n~d~ ;t_nd lci1d t~ 1he typi: t>f ro.mcwed fed~r,:di$rn whi<:h WM promi ~cd at the time of tbc ~fl'1tndum. There V.'Otlld be !ew~r OCC3lll<ln$ for ooonlet :tnd ttle. Catl3di.:an du.tslity '~~>'OOld be reoogniz.o.'"<l. all this within cbe context o( redeto.lism. There (an be no I0$1Crs. E'·eryone would .gain. Therefore. Mr. Speak«. I ask che go'l(mment. lbe orftciol <.JPPOSilion uod tbe gwemment of QIJebcc cosuppon tbl$ pn:~PQt~ol .

Hon. Strge Jo)'al (Mi•liter ol Scatt): Mr. Speaker, a nllmber of spcalcets 113~-e pointed out tbe bist«ical si.gnift(llooe of this debate as tbe last "C8JUdiao" step towards giving our coonuy the status or a rulty indc:pendenl state.. both in lac:t and in law. Thi$ step. in rac(.. marb the et~ or oa k.lns se.rie$. or eo.'ents wfl i~;l! t:~U.&rl ed in 11?1 "''ilh tJ~e election ql demuci"Qtic lcgi$1<tlurq, One or the pat~ntly r ... Jse cb.im:~ bein& drcut:lled tnOell widely today i11 th:H th<!" long mar<:b tov.·ard$ indepen-­detlee lt:'ls lakcn pl.:l«· a,)(S will eM without Quebec. And so~ people are very upset because. at this final stage we are "''it.nc:ss:ing a sometillle$ bitter .st.rug.gle between two Qu<:bccer$.. liS if this '~~>'er<: h.appcning for th~ first time..

Htlwry gives us a n t ntirtly difftrtdt vit'4'. Jn fact. from Louis·Hippolytt-Lafo•uai1•t · to ~rre Euton Trud~'au, iUustri·

<OUS Quebccers have aiW:t)'S been in tbe forefrom of Qanad:I'S long and len£lh)' struulc: tO'I''atds indcpo:::nckoce. 11 is ai&O true, unfonunotd)', d1.<1l from Louis ·J()!~Cph P~pineau op to Reni: L6ve9(t~JC. the~ hll\'t' ;~1"''•1 YII been Qucbecers. •·ho qp~ thi;s prQCC:SS nnd who defended the: :~latus qui) with Jien-.: detomnin .. i tion. I tJUnk. it is appropriate to rteaiJ l11t!te C\'Crtts tod:t)'. i•t otder to put tbc presern deOOte in its ptoper !historical context.

l t wa3 Looi$•1lyppolytc l.:•ft)!ltainc -..·M. in tbe J84C)'s, tout t111 tbe tal<k of repairing t11e- pc~l ilkal dam:1ge caustd by Louill· JMcpb P:lplneau.. kader ol ttle 1837·38 rtt>clliort, and wbo, u.rooal• his alliat1oo witll ROOm BaJdwin . .wccccded irt rein·

.. 13498 COMMONS DEBA'rnS November 30. 1981

7h ConstituliQft

stating tbt ti&C of Fre:ocb Ill the legidature ;utd in (lbtaining responsible 80\'etnmcnl. Nc.verthdcu, be. waJ oon~uutlly and rtetcdy auackc:d by Papioeau upon his return from exi.le and by bts foiiO'II-en. then 5cd by Nicbon and Vi.g.er. Joseph Cndton Q.id the foiJowiDg abo\Jt hpincau in l848. and J quote:

Som• men Ol"f btnl -•~•tvet.iofl ~lh.tw-...-~ blliill till lilt tlllfll l)ey ld't bcloi .... .

In IIJ~7 . there wwlcJ luY'C been no confederatioa or Canadi· a n feder.l.lillm, :and ~nadjll;n fe~Jeralbm ""'OUJd 001. have been at ~malltc.ld a~ il i$ without Georgc Etieonc Cartier. Once more, it wu Papln~u and hit f()lto.-ers. this time led by AntoiM·Aim~ Ootloo, who wut oppl)lltd Cl:) t he (~nation pLan at1d violently auactud Cartj,er. Howeftr, it waif 0eoJ¥e Eticn.ne Cattier who initiated lhe oodineation of ej.,.if tu · in Quebec aDd cstablish(l(f tbc prorince's exclusi\'e jwisdktion. in that fioeld .

At t~ bq:innina of tbis century. Wllfrid Laurier decided to •akc a Jtand ~salMt Lon<ioo'J imperialiJt des:igos and to affirm Canada'£ ~ilial autonomy i:n tbe a;hippin.g Js.s.uc. Tbc: .ship­pin.& bill tabled ia 1~ 10 involnld, f<W the (ir'$1 time in <1'11

hki.Oty, a deflnitl(lfl of Ca.uda'll itatu$ u 11 CQUnlry n<.N fully lndtpcodcttt of th-e empire O()r to.tally lnttpatcd in the batter . To LauJicr, it wu an opportu.nity foc Canadu to act rtipCI«<S· ibty, whik Ktting itS~elf apo.rt frocn the Empire. To the. Ol'ltafio Tories, Laurier's gesture coonituted a .serious act ol djsloysh)' to Enaltnd. To the Q11ebcc Conservativtt aDd Hen1i &urts.s.­a'• mati<.~nlllir~ the-~ure reeked of colonialism. Can3da's aut()nomy beamc: one Q( tlle n:11ajw imes in the. 19t I elcctioo. Lautkr wa.s defeated by <1 euriou$ e.llianQe of i.m.pcrioJi$1 Tories o.nd Qu.ebee natKmalillts, In an utic:k publi$hed in 1.1 /)n'(){r Oft D«t-mb« 29, 1911, Omer H&-oux confirmed once again that e.xucmc.8 tend to meet, atld I quote:

Ln tkr's $lllfplna bill "''*' Odulcd llalo..ac ;1 MliJ'ocd 11\1 ~. nci4hcr (ho na!i~ not t ht ~l&u.. Box\ pr.~tl.b '"'ft'C qrC!C!f llat lkllybrid polltt •bwld 1101 -~~~~to~. fl .,.,.. loslnl ud <lllaO"OidJbtt.

Aftc::r Laurier'4 defeat. it wu aJao logical and UMYOidabte dui the riews or tlle. imperialisl4 rather than those of tbe. natlon;tlius $huuld triumph.

As fOf Laurier, at the beginning ol 1912 M de:clarod, somcwbat fruJ tratcd, and I quoc.e:

As• ~·~·' hwo~ lO ~d u,... ~d•Y· And he added;

As I W,tJ A)'i/11 J'vtt 110•, we tiiiYC bec>n I IUCI:fd by-.-" l llc e~~flliou! l~ •ho ..,.,.. _ , a.;rimoeiou,. m(:KI .jol(nt and 1!111$1 ..Cair in lbcir auacl(s ,.~ •"- •ho o;,.U '"-"- nalion~~lilu -- tiiJ countr,, O..r po~Wiu c~~\011 ell~ Ofl# modtNtion '*' ciiMto in t rraur' "'*" cllc •(On! (llm;ili:tt~ twl t!lc:"' t~ • • the: ,._11, ToWt them ~a!k, lli)f'l'Od fOIIId w mc ""' <>I'Ot111"11: e•c Ube:rds. fro. " """' tltcf) -crt ttpual('4. '"'Cft .....,~ ..-..: <:-....ul--e:s Wf~C. ... n -

BrDW Lapointe.. Mad:Cflzie King'J right-band man. was a ckm1inn.nt ri&ure in Cu.nacb between tile two wan. (h·er tbe ptOIC:!US or Lo!Mion, In J9ll he was l~ fin::t Can.,dian repre•

jtntat.lwo to sign, alooe, a.n international treaty with the United St11le$. ,\ t • federal•pr<Wincial confere~e in NO\-cmber. 1927, Lapointe.. as Mini~ter ol J ll$1.iQe for C.nlltfn , proposed that oor oountry should ba\'C tbe right 10 sctde its own <~ffa i r~. both intettJi tiolllll)' and n~t~tionally, and sb<M..Jd ba\'t the authority to amend its own Constitution. UOOer tbe St~ttute or W~tmin· 11ter PAssed in 1931-Lapoinre was one of the provinti.a1 ncgotiiliOI'$-Cao;ub's e.xtemal and inten•al independence '4'8S rcco,&t~ittd. UnJonunateJy, at the time. who • 'A$ liUpp(lrh:d by the Quebec nadonll!liSt!l, loadon rcuiood tbe authority to amencl Canada's Constitution.

In 1949, Louis St. l.aur«~t. the tbeo Prime Minister o( Cauda, $ooc:eeded in pallsin& billll by ... hich the s·upremc Court. of Qnada b«ame tbe '-OUtt (){' lut resott for aiJ Canadi.an C:aSieS, wilh thtce out of oine $eats beina re$Cn'Cd (l)f ceprcsentative$ ()f QuebeC·. and in giving the Parliameat or C8113da the po--.·er to amend il$ own Con.,titut.ion without !Qing to London. This time. it '4'8S Maurioe OupleQJ.:s. 11g:1in supported b)' Q~~ebec: n;~tiooafiiiU, wbo protested tbc:se ex-prcs· sio.ts ~f e.nancipatjon. And in 195'2, Louir St. ~urent decided it WM time: a Can::·adian w.\S appointed 10\'CtOOf general.

In 1%4, thanlu tu a <:t~mm itment made. by l-cstct 8. Pe::U· ~on at the infli$ten~ of his Qu.cbtc ooUe:ttues. esp«liaiJy Mauricc: L:.montagne, tbe bat to :tdopt a Canadian Ra1 was pcUSed by 1'3tliacnent. Since 1925. attempts had been ma4c to sive. Canada a distinctive embJcm. B«au.se of the poUtic:al situation at the time, the Progre»iV~; Com;c:rvatives ~R~'tte opposed to this bill. HO'III·e~r. tod~y no ()fie, ex«pt per bap$ rbe Q!.•ebcc: 3c.ptl"*tist.s.. WQU)d ~ue:Jdon the prick felt by tbe vast !nlljority of Can::1di;m'$ with re~t to our flaJ. As for Cana· da'u 1utional ;tntbcm, ;adopted by PaJIIu\Cnt ill J uDC: 1980. cbe nau.1k -.·,~~"' wriuen a huDdrtd years befOJe b)· the Q\1dxc: toti'IJ!Cl'C:t Calixa LavaJife. to •wth b)' Ju.stioc Alpbonse-611~ile

Rou.th:ler. The English \'erlion dates blltl; to ISIO$. Anotlti:r Quebeoer. Pierre Elliou Trude.u, proposed it' adl)ption.

Jn &ivina thil $bent OveJVIew of tbesteps that have kd to the cmnplete ent::ll'lclp:nlon of our coontr)'. r· wantc:d to make it dear that Quebcctfs bave a lways pJa)W u major role.. As le3der.s of tbe Ubetal ~rt)'. as ministen or the COO"'·n and as cn«nb-cn of the Hou.sc and the Senate, Q11eboc l,.iber.tlil h:ave af"'a)li felt tbat tbe.y had to QOfltjoue the work unckrtaken by t..a.roo•ai.ne aft!.~ brine it to fruitiqn. At time.<~ this was dooe at tbe co.sc or 11. loo election ltnd sometimes or attacks and insults o( 11JI tind$ but always., and today is no e.xcepc.ion. tbey Jhared t_he belief th:u lbe:· fight bad to go oo. At eaeh 5taie thttSe Qu.cbecets felt cenaio of refkc:ting and ex]lfcssing tbe CQn•

oems of lhe.ir fellow Frc.och·Cal'ludians in tbnt prOO:S$ <J( sbapiB.g the country.

• (I«~!) I

Unf«tunatcl)', they alwa)'lS m~ ~t~ms the ..ny other Que· bccers -.•bo ,.·ere afraid of change and in fa,•ou.r or tbe sttmd

.. ~10.1911 COMMONS D£8AT1:S 1)4"

.tiO (or th~ Ab O( tome O.tmodcd 181'\'i¥1.1 O( tlmCI paSt (W

bcclu.c ol inferiority oomple;~, In th1t contut, th~ curtcot bitter llabt is better unckl'ltQOd. Wbllt b Uwol¥td hiatorically IJ a OOtlnlct bet'tll'etn l'A'O groups or Qvc:.beocn whh bliically dUferent vie .... s or • ·hat it in i tOfe f0t their fellow citir:en:~ rtthu than a pt'tSOC'Iallty ooonict. I ror ooo ~~om prwd that Q~.Kbcccn at cvcty h.igb pobn in theh history ChQ\c tl1e rood indiC.II tcd by Laromaine ralhet tban P.J.plnc:au. •hkh would ha'tC tod di~tfy to aoootation bylbe Ueilod S-.t(l.

Toda7, we arc on. t1M: CYe of the 111011 ai.pirll(l.at t:tep i.n. our OllftMin.t-.J lt.illory Mcc CODfcdentioL IMt 011ly bceuse wt: • .a loOOit att.il r.u ......OO.tioul i.SCpcoda~~et. ~· -~all bcalltM we Ate IQii:q 10 eaw.te 0.1 prori.ce~ ia tN f•t•~ .-ill have tht abdu:tc ri&):t w piaJ aa cumhtl rok i• t.bit 0011• tl)' .. CIOIIa:litutiooaJ deYdo~mt.. tt.t C.nedil111 wiU Clljoy besie ri;JbU that are proteetcd apiMI the whims o( JO'I"Uft• menct, aM finaU)• tbat Cauda wiU booomo • ooontry a'lmmh· tcd ro~cr 10 equal status a!KI tlghiJ ror the F'rmdl .and l!nlll•b 111Rilll8e8,

Many or our pR:dOCC$$Ors attempted to rc11ch that soot. l.~~opolnt~ St. Laurcm. Favreau aod cvo~a thiJ Pthne Minbtet (Mr. l'r~o~deu), in ViCLoria and more recently In Oua._ ... ill 1980. met .. ·it.h r11i!ure ~~>.nd bad to poltpone thllt last aod fundamctllal Strp.

M aln)'s they mrt aloaa the wl*y tbc. suppor~ of tlt.c 11•1~a po. ~)q or ~aa tiiClCid!ICWt of Pap.11e11 ..

O.r hiwwy wu awk de:qlicr tllodr udoulin .,.,_. _, ~UCle ud euc ht'ria1 Uodtr lN.t ,.ikltorf*1, ll~ was o.ce dM: t«per cl t.t.te. faitll aM now the \~ ot tbc JICOI'Ik, ThiJ tlet~t kind of deric:a.Ui:m is .ochifi:J but a trap. h ml,a.htlad u.s to m.iu the Cauda of tbe )'Ctr l.OOO.jui:t SS t.hc old OM kept us f« more tban 100 yurt tn a marslnal tural lltiCicty 8plrt from d1c d~'Ciopmcnt or t!)c induttt'-1 toe:iety.

l'hc Quebec dudlencc is not to cnturc that the Frc:ncb lantull&.t 11.nd culture wiJI prc.,_il ln Q~Kbcc. Thnt toal has &11"4•dy been reached. Ac:c:urding tu orr.cltl fiturcs, 86.1 pet ocnt or )'C)IW! Qut:beoen ur now In the Prcnch cduc:~~tjon 1yatem.: tbc number or stud~~t~~.ts In Enalldl tchoob tkdi:ned from 250,000 bc:rorc 1975 to lbe autrnt 161,000, 11 JJ per ccnc drop owtt six JUJt. Even wit.lt t.M "'Om.d.t chide .. , the ilwuicM ol O.Cbcc: by f:o&lish-speatin.f Caaadia.M (tcm. otlltr p!'Oiti..c» if MC to be (Cf.Rd UJIDOf'Co (adccd. the: oppot;&c will .. ,.. Q.ebot's QC:W adtural ~ roaua: Oil the lmp'Oil'CIMflt olthr qu.lity o( ou.r UJII~ and cwh:•tc. T1ri:s il a C'ballc!Qtt' for ead a!JCI ~ ooc of us 10 meet. O.r pro.im.ily 10 111e Uflited StaleS makea: h d.iiTicolt 10 ru~lt lbort eim, but lheft it would be ""I'OCII 10 s:ua.aut th.at sotpantion rrom the rut. or Canada would make il wier.

Anotllc.r major imperative fot Quebci.'CI"S b J>r0$petily and a bhiii!M:i:d ooon<Hlli~ crowtb. Several toenariOJ. e•pcdally tbat dm .. n tip by Juli~. Lamondc and Lotouehe In 1hdr book t:lllhlftl Q~il)~ 2001. lllf~ S«iiti r4'rq/df~, ptedkt a JlOWil\g

11tt C.Urir-.dOit c:risi:s or tbc ooonomk: i truC'ture ifl Q.d»c. lt would be doocit• ful to auqm_ tlla1 Q11ebcc would more eniJy oYm:ome tbll eoooomioc ~ritb by tceodlna r.l.llct tha1:1 rcmain.lna within Canada, wilh the lluJt t.._nt-fer pttymrntll whJch that teJatlont· hip impt_i~ nnd wlllch ffl>ttl IKWo' on, (ollOWil'lg tl1C f111A311£.C or thb rel1(dudotl, wUI be mnde tO Quebec as a matter o( right rorrually ~~:wuantccd In the. new c:onsdtutioft.

r •~n arrajd that iJ we dCWM.e oot best dfOftS to co~ttroltlta.t stnlctutal eoonomic: crltll, fl ... m not succeed in O'I'Ctwmift& it compktdy. ()uriq tk tWO Mal dcadcs,. job!!, will be priac:i­pelty m:atc:d ill Watcn Cauda.

Ae ~ au.mbcr ol r,.., • .,,...,._...,,. ~will protal;• blr 6ocilk to talc. pan ill a fCOMid laf1Jt ,..,. to tlte Wat. MOfCICJ"CC', tbe m~'OfJ' IIIO"'"t:'fftl lw already bqu. frocn 1976 to 1910. che •11n•al oct al'Cfl&e ol imml&r*tiolt from Quebec to olbU ptOY[Mlet WIU Jl.)(K) people.. from 1910 CO 193S, the avuaae I• Cll.poctod 10 be 32.000 acootdill& 10 tho ~f.k fO«e 0t1 the dc.vclopment or the labour force.. By curapoo Iatin& t hJt figure to 1hc ye11r 2000, it call be estimated that about 640,000 Qu.cbeOerl, In net tctms. will emigrate in the nCJtt two dccackf.

In tbal context. Cll~ ml.l$1 be taken t.o avoid tbe c:rrort of the rtt'St ytat Mh i.ft the tc(Ond half or the 1800s when 900.000 of Oll:t o..-ft peopk. kft ()v41bec- pcrmaMacJy. AliOtbcr citatlc:np m-ust be met: OUt or lmpnwinc cot~~~ickrably tbc liqu.i•tic aad a~ttaral a'f'itoamcot ol (~ cniftoritic$ outaldoc Qvebec • order 10 CftNt'$ tiM r.u 4pck;puml of tt..c C~C~~N~~uitics. Vofon•utdy, that~ hu lllilnef bml t.br. priority ol tk Qw:btc ~ Owl the «het hapd, ti.nat 1961 ....t .-rtit.l~rt)' d•ri•a che "70L. the Caaadia11 ~· meru met tl!at chalk$ tba11b primarily to tbc cou.raae •nd pe:rsevt:ra.nee. of tK pretent Prime J.finister of Ca..nada. Tbo oiT'.ctal Jall.glli..Jel act. tpccirtc: federal suMicfics to tile pro¥io· ces aru:1 francopflooc JtOOJII, che excensioo or frcne;h radio and television networks fronl ~rt to coast in C&Mda arc amonf cbe steps taken by the Cun•dillll • ovc:rnment to lmprO"t! the lot of fnaDCophone minorldu,

The resolution ~· before us k anotbct very impona111t 1tep in tbt same dirottioft. or (I()UfSC it does oot CO (u mou.ah but stiU tbe fa« il lbat it cm.h.tiMS ill the (X)(I.Stitlltion tJw fuU Jiaauiltic: rtpta ol tk Acadiatu of New Brv•wic.k •ad Ulc ria!o• .. ..... , .. ....._~ ... ,...... - Qocbo< .. b< c.t-=atcd m ahdt ow. tOiqiN: " tM- pnma.ry w ~" ~nods ~· c....d&. 1"hue' will udou.bttdly be. lOll of work ld\ btat I am oocwi.ecxd W.t w£1}; patialce aod COiaf'ltC IJti'CIWill ,.coecd. lA dut OCMIIc.J.I, I do oot ufKkntand lJioM wlto are a.pios:t tbit. reeolutioa beca'* it cloc:$ DOt to rar cno~~~JII. )'et at tbc aamc dnK reject the sianiftcl.llt PfOIJ'CM it a••r•,.. lees. Probably wldl~t I'Qii.!:inathis, tbey too vc in (avou.r q( tbe aqhaa q\JO.

Finally. there b lnOthcr ritht ••hie;h will be fonnally aua • rantccd by tbc c:OI'ItlhudOil, namely tbc r\cbt ot tbc pn.wintcl heDCefotth to ~rticlptte (\Ill}' in the corastihatioaal evolution elf'

IJSQO COMMONS DEBATES November JO. 1931

Tll4 COMlilUt/()11

tbe country. The Supreme Coott of ~.nada rultd recently t tlal

even thouab d1e:re is a oon,-ention whicb requires a oonS1t1t1us o( the provinoc,:u with respect to any ooMtitutiOf'lal dlan.ge wMcb •ffec:U tbcm, tbe (c:dcral Parliament" strictly entitled tO md:e sucfl cf111Q&e3 unilaterally. In my opinion, that i$ an ai)OO:'Ialy whk:b is inoonlli$tent witb a aenuine (ecleraiUun because a tMr$ tolwcatlon whkh of:t'ers oo legal rec::ounu: b oot a sufficient guarant«: for tbe protectiOn or pnJvin_eil&l rights and powcn,

1t is pudsely thou unaooeptAbie anomaly wbicb will be OOtrte«:d by the· resoft~&.ion and the U-.m<oc.lina formula. Tbl$ formula is lk)( the. beSl, .of oov~ but Ill least it does au:~runtee Qtubec~ ellltutal sovueignty. PerjOtl.ally, lite Olher$ on thi5 side ol tbc HotlM, 1 li'OU.Id haw preferred the VM:wJ:a fonnul.l ~;~nder wbicb Quebec bad tbc right of v.eto. h b unfmumate that Mr. Ren6 UYe&quc did DO( advocate tbat form11la wbtR it was time, unlike d1e Olnadian go'I"Ctnment and tbo&e or Oota· rio and New BninJWicl:. In sbort, it is extrcmcly sad i~MS«d that tbe gow:msnmt ofQoebee bu. not made any real effon to impi'O<Ye this IUOiution to a~ to be abk to sive. il.$ oonsent without matins ~r1t:lt~cnt!l or ckliverin;g un.aoceptable ulti• matums. And yet. upo11 reOoetlon we tbou.ld bavt. rl:illl~ at the out&et that such agroeme.flt w.u imPQiSible-. The PQ pernm<:nt co11ld not drop tbc fiffi clause of its pLatfotrn wh.ic.h i$ 30\'er<i.Jnty. As wu stated in their white paper, tbc)' do not belkve i:n rcne•"Cd fcderali3m. I quote:

In lbl. ~nl011 oi ~pUll.- or Qodld, &he pi1if11l fliol4t)' of""~"' • oil ,., .,.~Qs •tl•p&~al """kl~~~t the (I(!IIJiit~tcictl proou )"" ._ dtt.:liw il •ill k a.c..d'orUt lo thi11k 1boo.lt,.,...... f('liwalkm il a wt)' wbkii .WCfll bf Mtilil'ton«)' 11 ell~ '"'MC lit~~.~ fo-r ..._. QIK~ •nd tM AA of C.n"'---

Not only do the PQ $liJ'S)QftC#S noc believe in ~DC:wod fodttalism, but they ttruinly do not -.·ant to b;I\' C< anytbl~ to do with it. (o that respect J roeaJI a .ill\tement made to the Canadian Prwlast Ncw«nbcr 25 by Mr. Sytvain Simard w·ho was R:Ceody elected Vice President of tbc Parti Qu6b6cois thanks to the support ol Mr. Uvesqua. I read that sutement in TM Citi:rn of NO'I'Cmber 26 but, uofortllnatdy, 1 did not find it in U Dtvofr. Tbcrefore I will quoc.c it in En&)isll: . ( .. ~ IEngliJ'h)

Wllu I m )'Kif fQlrcd ,..,, .. .,1 ~IIC"'$ m;,;on (to0\11" 11) "'011111 mdl in • "'"'i• "'~· • n qrwmrnl.,

Till! U98<1) rd4:rcnchunlo~ blm to ~ylltt ~(of kdcNii$m), bolt 101 U$ 11 "' an tll:lm11Cly d•f~FI'\'IId &-""" bo('a..,.. a:• "IVCC.t<nl -Id hnc ...,.,,.. .. (« yotlf'J._

That is the vi«-ehairmsl'l of the Partl Qu~b&.<oois. I( OIM:· wams to disc'"' an •s~meot with the prc::sent rcpreSJCot:uive of the. ~cbcl; ~mme:nt, tbe11 it is bcuer to have tbat in mind. (TroiUI.atiDII )

That Is the naked tru th. The PQ gqo.·crnmcnt rttver really w~.oted to eJtter Ink> an a.g:reement, Mr. t.b-.:~~Que would not aoccpt to scuttle bis pa:ny to meet the Ca~Udi:.n cflall~ge. ADd ift his effon to oorwil'lce Quebecm to fa'MIJr lndt:pell· dc.nc:e. be uses r:vcry means at bi:s dispos3l, e.ven dc:otitful

propagan<bl ag;aii\St tbe Gowmmcnt of Canada wbicb he dai~N is rcspons.ibk for aiJ kinds of r:vil. treason and encroach· ment. lo this respect. tbc recently publisbcd PQ po-mpbkc entitled "Ctlt S~!ltfiUMit!tlfl I, ttmps" PfOVickts 41 good iJtu:stration of tbb di&boDCsty which few ol th< w-c1.1.lled impar· ti~l observers in Quebec b;we the tut'l to point out.

The PQ p;unphkt states. and lq.uqte: n. •w:t- )'IIU'. 19;)7, Ottawa ., .. wCII u • " • .,r Qvdococ joo•""""';,..,

~-~ooo• or old *IC ~~on~. To say tbat Ottawa pablcd that area is wron .. The fact is

tb.1t the Quebec- aovernme1H es~<~blished its own reti rement 3c-}leme-in 196S. MOTC()'n::r, whe:n the Oovemment of Canada propoSed itt old llige ~tily prtltl'am I-n 1950, it did ~ through a constitutional amc.ndmeot aa:rcect upon by all tbe pt"<Winccs. Mr. Duplessis, the then Quebec Premier. made the following statement in Engli.~h. durin_& the fcdcral·proorinclal oonfercac:e which had boco eaUed f« that pur~ [i:'Jtgli.tlr)

lo\'c ""' • illio'to.i11dad ..... >ol. lll~lk • illl Otu.w.a. lt u.jmodu'klllOfl <Jl lk COIIOtflllliOil b: I:Pf'Op!i.ltc it. tile <:iKII~, iotU_ - WOiild be. ... . •o col'fidet a ~ 1110111 me.-., •1y 1he Pl'Jitlilili" ,.-m<'dilyi~ 1h• Wt~o~jc,lW.. ia thf Nil« "'<)Id >~~16 l'(OlliO'"-

[TF(.lltllalion) As ooe can see. the federal ~nuncnt did oot ilcl ·by ror.:e,

as th<c P-arti Qu6b6cois n-ow maintaim. EJscwh<rc in it£ pubJi. cation eo PQ stAtes.. ilnd I quote;

In 1941. Olworo i~d "wdt!l r!<!W w.o.;ll klorlll"'l o:;cdll~iodJ ., the ~~~ """"'l'loJonCIIII ;,.,.,.,c.. What that document fails to point out, 00.-ev-cr, is that a1 that time also. the Coastitution wu am<nded with che a&rccment or aJI provi.n.QCS induding Qllebec. So bow Clln the-y ~t or cnc:roach.mmt wben the. Constitution was a~nded. with unani~ C<mlla~t, in order tl~t all Canadians could benefit from tJtls great social mc-.u u.re? Migllc I also n:c.U that the MllicitotS for Quebec themselves. wben argui.n.J their QI$C

before the Supreme Court last Aprtl. stated tblllt Quebec bad a i"''8)'S frccJ)' ag:rc<d in tbe p~ to constitutional3mcndment3.

&t tbcse oonuadioctions do not bother the Pn rti Qutb«oiJ. Tbe PQ p;impblet wntains the ml.l!:lt far-fetched itnd d~.-~ilful $1~tcmencs to try .and make· pcilple di~trtUt tbe fildeta l gm-en1· ment, wh.ik itl'las given ()tlr country, alw:.ys In the i1ltertllts of Quebrtcrs, one t~f the ntOSt gttll.'fJ)US suc.ial St~<;urity syst~nu in tbe .,.wld, within the purview of tl'lc C-.lnltitutlon. Ytt.the PQ psrt)' maintains that Octa wa is t~king <1\"t:r, en<:I'(J;tching. gritbbing, envadin[t. lt is with thjs type of propaganda that the P.trli QvCbCcois govemme111 is !Jiunelting il$ <:nmpalgn for ;1n lndtptt'ldC111 Quebec " 'hicb cooJd. apparcntJy, come dooe to civil di$C)bedienoe. 1t i$ &etting rdd)' to ttp.'31l~ unfortunate expuienoe of Pllpineau, in which m<Wt Quc~otr.l were never irtvolvtd but wbicb llC\'eithciC$$ lead temporuily to 11 d~dcnd.

I have listel\00 attentively to the amendment moved by lbe hon.. member fot PM'toeh<r (Mr. Epp) and th.< ~~I.>~ mend· meat introduocd by the hon. member for ()sh,.wa, 11nd leader of

.. November 30. 1981 COMMONS DEBATES JJSOl

tbc New Democratic P.o~rty (Mr. BrOadbent). Both propouls are s:incete attempts at arrivtns at some sort or arrangemena or compromise aecepcabk to the provitlot of ~bee. The Canadiaft go'lo'tmmMt is not in priociple opposed to fiscal oompensatioa. Hon. members will indeed recall that tbc 000·

stit11tiooal rC$01vtioo tabled laR November 18 by tbe Minisw of Ju$tice (Mr. Chritien) provided for fi&eaJ compensati<.lo in the lidds rclau~d 11) cduc.atkm ~md ~uhlilrfll Aft'uin. But the Right Hon. Prin.e Minl$ter uplailled J:.ut frid11y in tbC" Houki tbe posillon taken by llle prcmien ....-h<,. $isncd the aooord oo N~mber .S. We thert!ort cannot igl)()re tbtlr views in this regard. I w~ld abo point out t.h3t thtte b a flaw in each of the proposals inttodu«d by the bon. member {<~« ProYtnc.ber and the boo. member for Osbawa.

The firli't propc.l$11.1. by the hem. member for Provcn.cl\er, is fot full fliCal oompen~ation. Howc:'l'<t, the ho,n. member (()r Osha"'' would like to .see this re:urictcd to Quebec. In faet., botb i.gn~ the basic objection that it b ddirable to ensurec and JUarantcc that OOllstitutiocal amendments aimed at estal> lisbing Canada-widc programs consider the specific option open to t~omc of the ricbcr pr<WilKC$, namely to ope out or ~~ prQVa.m$.

The hot'l. rnemb« for OsJaa~~ta :tiiS'It'ti"S tl~at be would rtubcr keep fuJI oompcns:alion, Ylitb all tlle dw..-bscb it entail$. rutri<:tcd to Quebco. Howcrcr, abd I am exp.rcuing tbe pos:i· lion qf the &<m:mmc:nt or Canada, at tbc neltt SI~ in OlU const.itut.io~t~l rcfqnn, lhe government willa.lwa,ys be willioa to consickr propos:alt for m«tlna this object~, wh.ich would al110 ttlable lli to meet the objecti~ purmod by the hon. me111beu ror Provencbcr at1d Oshawa. How~-tr, I 1hould like to point out to both bon. members that at this .«age, where we have a oommitment rrom nine PfO\'it~dal first mioisten to dislCuss further amendments in the near future as &001'1 as tbe Constitu­tion tu,~ been !)ltriatcd aod tbe amcndifll romuda esctablishod, •'e can dr~.,., ~tiJrnc:tion from the fac:t that the otljcqive 01

concept ol ft1eal oOc:npcMatioun hat~ been ac:ccpted in tbe presn.t OOt'lttltutional re:\Oiution, and thnt the Canadl.an 8<W"' ern.ment uodettak~~ if such Is tbt dedrt ot the other prov­inces. to discuu tbe- m.auer at the. oeJll fed.eral-ptovincial oonferc:r.ce and to seek a formu.la that ta.kes into account the objc«i~ porsued by the bon. member fot Oshawa as •'tU as of the objections ~~t·e h:a\'t already c:<presscd io tbjs regard. namely that tbc •utomatie wit.bd.ra•-al of aoy provinee wovW jeopardht· the ~tiabli,bment ol pr()lrams tb11.t .fhould norroaJI)' be- aooessibl~ to all Cal)lldial\3.

Today, Mr. Sl)t'akcr, I can SOIY once nwrc tbllt I 11m con• vinctd the "*" majority ur Qu.ebecel'l will nClC be blinded by tbe false promJscs of the Piqu.istes who, in fa<:t . have DO r~pccc for the people of Quebec. They do n« know the people. 11 is true Quebcctt4 will not Jet tbelr kaden fot~t tbei:r diltinetiV'Cncs&. but nc:itbCf wiiJ they tolerate tbc nccl«c or otber equally impo"ant aspoets of d1cit individual aod oolloc· tfve ~U.tencc wbicb they share witb their NOftb-Amcrita.n

Th c(),Utitution ~l&hbottn. Queboocts wam to pre&«Ve their special status, but they do oot wanl to be i$oJatcd in the ~· And espec:iaUy, they do oot Wint te> be J,OYcrocd s.oh:b' oa the ba$i3 of tbci.r difference•. That is exaelly what tbe Nqui~es ref• &e to \Uiden:tand and what we, Uberal mcmber1 for Qutbee, atwa)~ try to re~~Jize. In thl$ retpeet, at ka.st, we C3G dalm to be closer to the peaple than tbe: Parti Qu6bkois. CYCO if tbe PQ aoel.tSd us of betraying Quebec.

11 is of c:ou.n;e unfortunate that during the last t~etOtilltionll there were oo true reprcsc:nUtivC$ from Quebec on the proyitl· cial kvd. But t his in oo w~y m~ns tbt the lut s.tep on the road te> ttl~ country's cmancipctlklcl wiU be tak«< without Qucbce. We. Liberlll 1nembers from Quebec. following tbe I?J&ht Ron. Prime Minlste:r ol Canada aDd tbt boo. Minislet of J~tiet, bavt- btttl fuJI-IlcdgOO participants. We. are COO· vloctd Wt in $Upporting this resolution., woe are (oUowina in tllc footstep; ol our predccessof$. We aiiO belicYC we ·~ expres&ins the wisbc& or a crea1 many Qucbca:n .ud retpeel· ing botb tbtir p<:J&OOatity aDd tbe WOn& ties tbat biDd tbe:m to a p-catCf country. I for ooc 11m grateful 10 the Prime Miftlster nnd the ,t.tinilltcr ol Ju!ltict te'lc havi.ng assoclatcd me to thil bi"ork Ul!lk, and I am pro~ as a Qucbcce.r to have bcel'l Me of ilS p;udclpanu.

Mr.~: Mr. S~ktr, will thehott. minister accept a que\don?

Tk Au..._, Speaker (Mr. Et•kr): Ag.rcocL The boo. member Cot Oshawa..

Mr. Bto.ailt.e•t: Mr. Spea.kt:r, l listeMd eloecly u the boo. mlnbtcr placed ita t.hejr blstori<:al context tbe t••o traditional attitudes that ba\'C ptevailcd in Quebec. But fiDAIIY. in tbat c;c:ercise be ebo&e to launc:b into an attack aaain3t the Parti Qu~b6oois. ln thill debate this aftcrn<10o, neitbcr the f'rosrcf. sive Coascrvativc member nor m)'Kl( bavc dealt with that situation. Gcne,..lly, J reel "''e arc io aa:recment with f'O*I on tb».

My question is the.refore the followins. coDC:cmina fcdcral4

ism. Doestbe ministct think that Mr. R)'an, u a Qucbea:r. 815 a federalist, is on hi$ side oo this issue.. or e>n oars?

Mr. Jo)'t: M_r. Spe:alter, J ~m qulte pleutd that the boc'l. member for <l<lhawa rcfen to tbe posjtioo take~t by Mr. RyaR (la tbls.

I wooJd rcmiod him tlnt in a tetu he itnt 10 tbe Rl&ht Hon. Prime Minister on Monday N<Mmber ~. Mr. Ryantllg&ested three ways or seultn£: the dispute which dewloptd at the ti.me the oonttituli<lnal oonftrttlte or N<WM'Ibet S wu adjou.mccL.

HJs: rmt proposal was that fina.ncial eompemsa1i<ln be a~nl• c:d with rcspccc to educat-ion e111tu"l aft~irs. He also S:tt.8teUed 1bat, where other fields of provindal jarlsdtcdon. were oon­c:e:rnc:d. we besin dhwullsionll immediately Of make web discus­siom the very tint item on tbe agenda ol tbc roUowing

13502 COMMONS DEBATES Novembet 30, 1981

Tll# C<Htstitulf<m conttituti<lna.l c.:onfereoce. I am refesring to the telex ol Nov~mber ~. He IIUJget~h)d two other ,solutioM for the other two poina, tiiU2tely the CllMcha ChtllSC witb regard to Seaion 2.l a~ a .USSI!!IS:mtnt of t.l:x oool;)iti ty ch.IU:.SC.

Wbcn tbe Right Hon. Prime Minlstet spoke befort" the Q~.»ebo:: 11ection of the Liberal Party ol Canada in Quebec-Clcy two weeb ago. t<Jllowina tbe teprt$eotatioos cootaincd in a letter to bim fn)m my hon. colle.tiiCS of tbe Quebec caocu5. be ptOJIOStd accepunoe Q( Mr. Ryao'11 fir.s.t SUJi~iion wbich is now iftcluded ln the- o:)nstihllioul resolution tabled by tbe Hoo. Minister of Justice on NU\>cmber- IIJ. Afterwa~ t.he Hon. Minister of Justice had to oonwlt wltb the pn:mier~> who bad already signed tbe aocord tO ()bea:i_n tbeir wrusc.nt. ln t.he meantime, Mr. Ryan bad further dlliCu:s.,ioml with hj$ ofticiaJs and advisors, and he as.ked that the- On3ncla.l compen~tion pr..Willi<>n b<: rcvie"''ed with a "iew 10 extend it to oommtutiea· ti<m3. artd also to &Otial alfaiu among ocher things.

Meanwhile, during the discussion.'! that rolk)wed on rc:iMtllt· inJ in Sections 2.8 and 24 the ptO\•isiooll rcl:~tcd to n1t.tn·e ri_Jhts, the premiers indicated to the- Minister of J'"'tict-thr.t this ·~~~ tbe aCQOfd w•hicb they W"tte wUiinJ 10 acttpt io O!rd.::r to meet at tbk point tlle rcpre9CntatiollS snbmittcd by the pr<wlnce of Quel;lc:e, tbe official opposition in Quebec. and this dde 00' lhe Hou11e-. The-Prime Mjoi$tct has therefore panjaiJ)' met tbe request for fu.ll liru~nciii.J coi,Tl,peJl::mtioo. What I ha~ atated today b that the g<M!'mmcnt doc.s 1101 object to e~tcnd· ing thi$ compcosation Ut principle., but that for the moment. il is boond by tbe telex and the sg~n-.ent t:llpr~ by Mr. bill Benneu wbo, itS c:hairman ol tbc firsl miaister's conf~oe.

who de;arly told the J<Wern.tnenl: We hope that lbe House and tbe Clln:~di.an P41rliam«~t will ~plete tbe debate oo the Accord iU qui<:k.ly •• Jl()SSibte, and that p11triation can be t'IYected without delay. a.Dd that ""'"t ca.n mcec aaai.n eo resume our dJscussiOI'lt Olltbis m:~Uer.

This of OOtltSe Is in f'UP(In$e to the objcc;ti<.lns Of tbe wish for rompensatioo c.xpru.'led b)' M.r. Rylllt Jiller on 11.nd t.o~.ke$ into oomidcfation tbe objections raised by tbe· hon. mct~Jbe:r ru, Oshawa himself ten days ago in this Hoose wtlen be uid: ''N oonoerns social programs. An opting-oot clall$Jt witJt full On:tn· Qat c::ompcnsarion oouJd <:all!e ooosi«rablc. difficulties in impJemeodng new programs dcsicncd Cot all Canadiattt". It w<>uk! tbertforc probably be possible to have diSlCus.dOil$ artd to develop a fonnula whic.h woukl mcc:t both Mr. Rysn's wage&­tioos ~nd tbat tbe-bon. member tor ~biiWIII.fllld our~lves bal"t

been saying: during tllis debate. I there(<KC befie'Ve that the wise thing to do tod~y. tomom>w :tnd Wtdn~day u.fternoon 'III'OUid be.. of ooon;e., fitst o.f ~11. to go on with thill ddllllte b«:a"&e qpinion11 arc noc cast ill cement in thls tegat'd, as tile hull. member fw ~•·a bas admitted. As far as we are to~rnt.'ll, <In the-gqvemmc:nt 4ide. we are "''iUing to djJICuSl this m21ter d1:1ring n f0fth000lin8 QOO$tiunionaJ coofe:renoec: where. we WOQ)d try to define it better, but we do DOt want to ptevellt this resolutil).n from being <~srecd to a$ 11oon a11 ))(Mible

so that we ttlay cootittue moetl.ug Mr. Ry:ta't objectil"CS • •bidt an; those or tbe Quebec Liberal Pan}', lhe objectives or the bon. member for ooa ... -a a nd tbe most sillCCfc objccth•es of the: bon. member for PrO\·cocber.

1 tbe:efore bdie'Ve that it is in wch a climate: tbat tbe debate must continue durins the nQ;t few boun and not In ~ eootext of outbidcUns wbete en:r)1)Qc- woukl try to add o1 bit more to the res<~lutiott to mal:~ it m<>re-attmcti~ to the: P.Mti QuCbC.­cois gGWNitne:ttt since. tht' bOil. Member lltld nty$tlf both know that, in: lllb rtgard unfOC'tunateJy, .,.e iuft to oot~sldet the Mate.t"letl.l!l made by tlle duly elceted tepttsentati \U of the Pani QuCb6coit at their conventions and at pu~ic political gatherings.

So I feci it is our dut)' to look after franoopbones in Canada. I am d<Hgbted to see. tbat tbe boo. member for O$bawa is doina bis utm()St in tbis f(i$J!C:Cl, and chat ill exactly tbe trap tbe PQ wwkllik.e WJ to faJI int(). n.al)lely, to reru&c fl'()m n<>w on 10 mett l))e p:lrtitula.r needs of Qui:bco."e'l1. And at l illus.trated tllit ~ftern()()n, oor pred~'e'lsort ha~ aJ.,.-ays done evtt)'thlna_ pooslbk to meet the speci.rt<- needs of Quebeecrs. l will not repeat either wllat Cartier, St. La\HC1l1 and Pearson ptoposcd. or what we ounehoes are proposing oow in this rcsard.

Wben tbc: next stage oome:s. •he bon. member ror Os.ha••a. whose part)' btu made many oonstrvctive svsg«tioos througb­wt this ConsHtutiooal de\JQte, will be o1We to continue l<tk.iog PQM in tbc:oc dilit."llnio~U. A.nd I em.pb<a11izc tlutt (lne- f)r the fund.arncntal lljpi!Ct.s •hi<:b hall b«n eh.anscd, OOnlplted -·ith prcvlous Ce.!stlttnion~l eonferenoes. Is that tbe-Govettunent of CaAada ... -m t1o lo~t ta.ke pan in tbem, as it used to. without the s-upport of a re901utioo passed by the House. without having inrofvcd the Patliamet~1ary committees of both the Senate and HOU$e of Common~~: aDd from now on.. when we­take p811 in Coostitutiooal ooofct\mQCS, vndcr new preccden1:1 wbkh pr~ vuy ll»e(ul o..-.:r the pi1lll few monlht, .,.'C will be­able I " JICICept thl:- par,k-ipllti<'m ol ht)n. m~nb.::rs from all the J)l!rtid in tbe-House. And I lhink that in this way, WC· y,•iJI be able to respond positi ~oely loa rc:qu~ whicb tbe ~.,ember has made and whkll Mr. Claude R)'an. the Leader or lbc: Quebec l.iber.al Party, h.\$ $upported.

• ( 16"»)

(English( Mr. tpp: Mr. $peo1l:er, in order that the deb:Hc· m::t}' go

forward in an orckcly manner, I W"OOdct if lbc minister wwld accept a questioa.

Mr. Jo)·al: Acreed.

Mr. 2flp: I want to 1hant:: the mialstet and memb..-tt of the Ho\Jse (or t.bc(r OC)Urte:sy. I W<~$ pleo1$Cd to hear t~- minister indicate tbat the principle of full oompeosatioo bad tbe svp­port of the. g<wem.m~t. Jn vit•· of tile !lt:tlernc:nt be h:tt n<lw

made thal tbetc ill to be a final ''OCe at 1h.ree o'cloe.k on Wednesday aDd tllat tht' matter of the time of the Hoose is now rewlvcd--in otlle:r wQrd$.. the debllle will end at t.h:tt

•• NO'o-cmlx.r 30. 1981 COMMONS DEHA 1'ES 13501

tin'l~nd In ~k.w of tbe telex teeth~ from Ptc.mi« Bcrulett ;and the &O<ld .,.·ill that pte\'ailed en Nowmbcr S bctWti:f'l t he ~i.ne Minister aod tbc ptO\'itiCC'I, wh.icb I int«prctcd as giving tbe Prime Mi,nistcr the ~bility, the frecdurn, to oontl1111e diSleussions • •i th Qvebcc aDd tbat tbat •-oold no1 jeo~r4ize ll~e aoootd, llf'ld ln 'o"iew of his endorsation of full compcOS3tion. does the mtnJ~tcr nqw (eel th:at diseuS;Un.s it and trying lO oon~ot to some agn:c:ment • -ouJd jeopardize the ac;eord.?

Mr. JoyaJ: Mr. Speaker, I tbank tbe. bon. member for Provef!cher for h.is question., which wiiiS)ve. me 11 11 oppoctunity to el<\ rify ~me ~l!peet <>l tbe 1:1.1\'S'II'et I 111''1: to the bon. mcmbet fOf Osba•'a.

Tfu:i Jl<lint I wa nt to ma~e is chat tbe gO\'etnmwt is DOt opposed to the principle of full oorn pe•ualion bet:·aus.e tJ1o governn.cnt h:u al~dy acc.cpted tbe impkment<~tioo of tl~l prir!Cipk-in relation to ed~Xation and wltural1n11 t1ets. I think the hoo, member will dearly u...&r.~tand lh~t.

What I said elcsrly to the hon. •nembu rm 0$1iaWl:& •·a~ lltU at this stage all member$ u.nd parties i.n this Hoose have unanin1W$Iy ;cgrecd to wru::l\llk lh'i$ debate llOt late-r tban Wcdocsday at three o'cfoek.

• (1~)

The ch;~;irman or 'he prenlicn;' oonfctencc vtry deatly stated ins telex to tbc Prin)C Mi.~tistef bst Friday that at tbh St:i.gt: tbt P"tl1li~r1 at the provinces arc 1)()1 in 01 position w reopen d1e disc:uJ»iom in relttion to tbat very aspect. Tbe position that I upressed today i.n the House is that we atr« tbc:re might be pruarc$J.. cb:lngc-~nd $US8tt~t ioo$ to be coo· .sidcrcd wbi<:b ~ould probably be «~tf«~.<:bed in t.J1e Constilu· tion st a !stet stage.. Hcwe~r, ;H this 1xlint il woolcl be mucb pr~fcrnblt- to c:ondude lhe debe.tc by c:on1inuing to di&Wss tbe implications of full oompensa:tioo ln tbe mannct which h!ts alresdy been raised by 1be hl)tl. member for ()$ha•·.-a and 1he hoo, member for P'fO'I·ench:.t. We kno""' tbat within a year. ac.:cording to Section 36. we are cotl'lmlttcd to a oon~tilutioaal conference oon~rning 1111 lc:~$1 (lnc ite01, tbc q.bQrigint~.l rigb" i&su.e. We will be in 11 posit~ a t that time to discuss tbat aspect again. If there is a need and a oonkl'hlUI: reac.lu:d tc> entn:neh that man~:r i_n t he Co~titucion, ""~ willtheo hll\'e the k:ind of amending formula and ooostitutional pl\lOCSs to 3C".ltie'l·e that rewh. I am quite s.ute tha1 i.f ..-·t kttp lhe good wit! existillg between the Prime Minister of Can3da a1~d

tllc premiers of the provinces whieb 'o'I'8S just mentioned by 1he bon. member. we ..-ill be in a pc)lition tl) m.1kc progrm .

If we L'lUin(ll cqmply 'o'li th I hi: suggestiOn made by Premier Bennctt at t his sc.nsc. nnd we try eo improve it without bcina in Jt position to obtain unanimou.s. asrcement in the last houn or debate, a kind or pressure mig,bt be created • •hicb •"Ou.ld be <:Ounlerpr()duclivc. (i'I)Od w111:~Jlquld be kept-. I thin!.: t:be hon. member undcrsta11ds tbst tbe bes.t "''ay or oontinuinJ to make ptog.r.:ss., as demoMtrau:d lntbe put weeks aAd da)'9, i$ e.ucn li ;~Jiy IQ del» le the i$su.c: <&s hoo. roembel'$ bt've do.,e. However. "''C sboold n1akc sure that that objectil'C- will still be

Tire ConslflfllfQII

in t ile mind$ of the premiers and tbe Prime f\ii_nll!t.:f or O.nada at t11e next ooostitutio03l conference &O tbat they will be i~ a pcl.iitiotl to re<l{>l:tl di!loCu.l.~ion on that ~-ery $ubjett. 1 1hink lt i~ p~lty "tisfactory in terms of tbe coru;c:nsus in 3trivtna~t that p:!int,

TIM Acting Sptaker (Mr. £tb.ler): Otder, ple:tse .. 01ht:r hQn. members are sed::ing the noor, pcrhltp; £or t.hc purpose of IIJ:~k.iJl$ 11 qu~'ion. Howe,·er, I must remiDd tbe House that the time allotted to tbc bon. tl)Cmbtr has exJii~. Ot courK, anything can bi' d(lne wilb ~~onanimo\1!:1 con.senl. l$tbere unani· mo~» consent?

Sora~r; 00.. l\fe•~: No.

Tk AetUtc Spt:ater (Mr. f.t•kr): There i$ not Unllnimoul:l COOSCJlt.

Mr. KIJ:a_our: Mr. Spdket. I wu IM'lt ri~int to U'f ''no ... If IOmc()ne • ·itlhc$ to ~llk ;s que.s.tion, I woold be happy to ba\"e

the be-n. member do that.

na Ae-titls Spfab.r (Mr. Etb.l(>r): In tbat cut-, doc:.t th~ bon.. 1'1\eillbtr for YorkiOn·MclviiJc (Mr. Ny~;trom) t~cek tbe fll.x•r fot the pmpo:se of MlcinJ a ques.tion1 Ofdet, pJtaSlC. Perm~ion bag betn granted. The bo!1. member for Ymlton• MeM ile t,, 11tcl.iog l bc. noor to n.sk a ques.tion or tbe bon. Mbtis-tcr of Stll.tc. Is tbat agroed!

So.111e bo•. Met~~lwn: Aareed.

Mr. N)'li4'((Jm: Mr. Speak«, I want to oommend the Minis­ter of State (Mt. Joyal) !Of' S:t)'itlg that, in principle, be l!Upp!Wl$ ~OM: kind of llm&OgC£1\<0t OOOOCrniog c:oropem.t~ • l (hiok tbni be has made a \'et)' important statement. Because of the impl)ftanctO of the L'i$ue, I woode:r "''Mtber he migl!t con~dcr u$.ina what lbe aovernroeot has doDC in Section 2) aDd i11 Sectjon 59 u a preoodcnt. In otbet words, "''C are puujng SeC'Iion 23. Cl)U<lerning the l:tngu~s:~=- or education, m the CoMlitutlon, and we are gi\'i.nl Quebec. the rijbt to opt in once it ptsses through the Nati.ooal Assembly.

I W<lnekr, bor;,1\l$e q/ lbe importance of ~be t»;ue. wbet.bf:r tbe otinistet would considct doing tbe Amc thing oooccroing fair and rt;U011abJe. oompe.n<~ntion~ that is, !hat the fednal Pari.Wmcnt include ~a pn.ssa.ee in d1e rcwlu1joo on oompensa· tion under ~lion 3-8{1)(tl) ot the amending formula tbat has t~ suppor1 oltbe H(ltl~e of Commons. and t he Senalf<. In athu words. it '~'"Q\ofd be our balf ot tbe amendina rormulll. There· fOfC. .,.,hen ooe wou.ld go to stage l WO of tbe eonstitulion.al confer.eoce. the: House ol' Conunoni and 1be Senate. woold alrcad;y have .said )'C-4 10 some arrangement OB compensation ..-·hjch wou.ld thcfl 001 foroe- atl)'thing on the otbcr provioce11 and W()Uid nl,ll open the ucCQ«<. 1"bVJ wQuld dcar1y U y tQ the other provirn:es that we io this Hm~sc ba''C agr«d with $Onte priDCiple of compcnilltion. that we ba..-c altcady passed it. it is: there And CQncrc.tc, and il biiS aooc tbrwg.h tltc Rrili$h P<J,rJ ia ~ mcnt at Westminster. I wonder whether lhe minister would OCiflsldi:r 1hat we art-111 JC;)St lulf way on tbis ' 'et)' lmportanl iMuc.. since }le a&rec:t~ to it in priDtiplc..

.. 13504 COMMONS DEBATES November JO, 19$ 1

Th~ CQtUiiiUiiOff

Mr. JO)'Il: I would lil:~ to thank the hon. member for his quc:stion. J think ooe upc« of hi~ suggat.ion o:K~td be adqpCcd. HO'IIo'evtr, as I have al~dy replied to the bon. member for P•·o~-enc.fl~r nnd lh~ hon. Leader oftbe New D<:mocra1ie Pany. I t hink t h.t t thos-e a5peecs ean be d.;;boted. At lenllt. it wo11ld meet with the agreement of the ptcmim of the provinc:::es who ~Ded the :101»rd <m N~,Wembe'r S.

I t.hjnk the bon. membet will tccopile that if we consider cllantlng :tl'l)'thlns, at this sta.g,e, it will ctcatc-a prusure. In tbc:. eonte.-cc of the sood (aitb w·hieh we rnu11t hep aACJ the l;llllt• ment made by Prro1ier BenDCu. at tbi1 stage w.·e should <:ontinue- 10 d l$CUS3 the llm~dmtnts and ~ubllnKndnw:ntt,

attcmptine to rind out an t he impli<:~1ion5 of their ac.lopHon, but we should keep thio.gs as they art now. In this House th«e hal·e been un~nimQUll amendment$ to the resolution as it a ffect.s lbe i:ssues of aboriginal rights and women's rights. I think Wt •-e art: satisfied ,.ith the rewl11ti\ln ill this m3e oonoerning oompcnsonM.m, ediKI.Iti<)n and cuJr.u r1.1l mii!UCI"$- I lhink that all Can:adia.ns. espocially Queboocts, undcrs1and that t Mrt: is the po.tsibllily ()( furtber dlscutsJons. H<>"'·t..-er, I think tbat ~han&ill.J anythifli w noeminJ tbe objective$ we have already reached wouJd reatly ~rdize fu~r Pro@fCSS 111 the Bt:\1 COtllltitution:tl c<l~:~ fercnce..

Mr. Brc:11adtlettt: A poiot or wder. Mr. Speaker. I tbink tbere is agreement, dtrougb informal oonsuhatioo. for me to a&l: OI)C

mf.'lrt question if the. •nlnlste.r wW ll!f'Ct· Ut :tiiS.,.'tr it. I ju*t wanted to h.1..-e it <:kou ty undcn1ood-

Mr. Chritiee: lt is not a quest.ion.

T•e ActJaa Speahr (Mr. £tlltr): Again. tb:ll will ba11e· to be doi)C wilh un11nimoos oonsem because tbe mintster h.as usod up all the timeanoued to hiln.

!io-•e •on. Mn~~Hr.s: A.greed,

Mr. Bro.db<tat: Mr. Speaker, I have. a qu.tstiM for the minister, to make the matter perfectl)· ~lcu. He is 5ayina t lt;u tbe govetnmcot is prcpucd eo look to at kuc two options and COJ'Io:eiv:.bly f.'IC11ers. On!:i is tbe Ytlo!:rill apc.ins 001 fMmuiJt •·hi<.:b bi&S been proposed by tbe Coo:;erv,,Live Party, and tbe otb« ill tbe proposal we ba11t- mack: today oot~oerning tbe po:~~i bili ty <llan ->pting out fonnut.ll whid 1 .,,_,uld rccO&nif% the unique pJace of the provinQC of Quebec in c;onfcdcration. b that the dC3r undcr.uandin.g that 11te nlin.istct atte-.ttlpced eo convey?

Mr. Jo,-al: Mr. Speaker. ltbink that any kil)(f of su.gges:tion whkh <.:Ould be ~n~~de tn t11e House in rel:lti()n to &cJM:ral oompensatioo is somctbing w·ltieh would be belpful a t one stage« tlte otltcr ln orde-r to tltttmpt l<l :urh·e at ~me kind or • c.:mclu.~ion to tb~c flrop<)SIIIh. I um quite $1.1re that tbe proposal. the wbamendmcot put forwatd by the. boa. mcmbet f<lr O.shawa, is a valid one. Howe~r, it fg; nceu<~ary to !ltudy and debate it~ r;~mificalions, a$ w~llas the one put forward by the bon. member for Pt~·cnchcr. What I want very clearl)' to slat~ is that the gO'i'erntnent b not Opf)C*d to the prindplo <>f

OORIJ)Ctl!l:Hion bec.tuse oompetu:al.ions :tre already entrtncl'led i.n the pn:::se111 re.solutioo. Howe\~r. t he principle of full oompc:n~tion ill :llt()thcr

maucr. lt to~rM maucn wlticll entomJXI.$$ all of the juri:s· dktloo involtiing Settion.s 91 and 9"2 of the British North America Act. lt thtn r11ille$ m:wy que$tklnll, a!l h011. fl\embtn: krt91'' very .,~11. Therefore.. on 'hAt a.round I wwk.l &ll ink thO\t futtber debate could take place,

Mr. Nitl&e•: YO\.I Iet him off the boot, Ed.

Mr. Bt0110teC: I wanted to put him on it.

Mr. Da,•J4 KUgoer (Ed•~to.--Stratlk-001): Mr. Spc.a.kcr. I am deli£hred eo rise t(l iptak in faYOOr of oor part.fs a.inend· mc.nt Tbe(:ase has already been made by the hon. member for PtO\'tbCber (Mr. E.pp). :tDd I do DOl intend to repeat it. I would n.s-k &he m.inistcr ir he would not lK pn:pan:d l() OO!)(cde tbat the matter is .so imporeant to the poople or Q~.tebcc that it is ttopetllng the matter "''itb tbc. pttmiers. If a telex can be ~J;ent Qn F'ridll)', $urt:ly we -could lldld 3notber td t.( 10 tht: respective pt'Cmien; today asking tJtem wbeWcr t.he)' would oonridcr reup.>nlng this 1naucr, wltiC"h v.-t: all agree is ill'IJ)Qr· tant. in order &h;~t the people(){ the m.ini51er'll P'V''incc might foci mote sympathetic toward this proposal. I remind the tninister, as be. is awa~ tJot a recent poll sbowed tiiSt $CHilClbin& like 27 per <:tm o( f~<~neophune Q1.1ebettr~ fce11h;u the aC'OOfd is a .. bonRC f'-hose ... wbitb I think i$ a distrcssin&l)' l<lw figure.

The hon. member for O:ilta..,·3 (Mr. Broodbtot) has mo\'td th:11 ewnpc:nlj.lltion .s;hc)uld be. aiiOl''ed cml)' tu the: pmvi!)(t of Quebec. I Y.'OUld ask wby, if it is .souDd for one prO\'inQC, it is not ,,ound for the· o tbtN. Is it that t he Leader of the New Democratic Part)'' stroo.gly auact:ed o11r pro~1 b$1 .,.ttk whbout tbin.k:iog? Is it because tbose. in his «u<:us w·Jw arc m<>rt: ll~$it i..-e eo Quebec bav.: persuaded hlt11 that tbt matter is so important i.n la -.itillf P'Q~inu that he llhuuld m;•k.e funher cooecss.ions oo tbe matter? I "''OUkl hope that t'he bott. member fur Osha w:1 and his party would vott foe the aruend· mc:nt as ... ~u.

• <•- · Durins the next (f;W moment11 I v.-oold like to ttU hon.

membe.r!l why I "''ill \'Ote for the rMution. There are many re<~!Kms, ~nd I will discus.<\ son~ of therl'l. I will also discuss why this r~utic>n COIJ.I3C$ me,llll w moone w·hc• t hinU n;llttonal unity is the: most impotCant (aC10f in updating our Constin•tion and federa l institutions., imrt~>tnse ooottJt'l.

First I w·ill dlset~ss ...,•by So!'Cming1y l'tlY ooostituents ••a111 me to vote for thi$ reSQfudon. Th.c o 1ucU$ and the-k::nkl' ol thlt ~rty ha\'t: taken a ~-ery aCCi\·e role in gcuing the rcsoh1Lion to where it is D()w, We llltc tnpced to OlObilb:t publie opilljon against the orisinal package of llw:: Prirnc Minb ter (Mr. Trtade3u) btc.tuse of iu substante and its uniJaternJ is:m. We l;truegkd (or ;a full :t!id l\ rair de-bate ol the proposal in th~ House. We fooiJ!t for 11 full, open pu),l/-c: 1M.::1ring befur.: tdcvi$ion s:o that man)' Canadians could be heard alld many more Canndbnll c<lukl k'C the pr<\Oe\!1. We •·trt a&lrlll\l'lt tl•at

COMMONS DEBATES 1350-5

the Supreme. Court of Ca~da decide. if 1he ~uc11tioo • ·as legal a.IMI oonni tu t-ion~l before it •'at :lent o(f to Londoo. We 4ragged the government-( do not think lt is incorrect tO say whoc2.i~ and groaning- into IJ<>ing $0. After tbc: dc:c:is.ion, in whklt a nt.fljorit)' o( tbc SCip~me Cou.rt judge$ sajd th3t tbe matter was IC«al but uaeonstitution.aJ, w·e fought l1.:trd to h:l)'t·

2 l"tt«Cing of lint minittcr~ fclf further neg()liatiofUI. Since tbe. teO·J)Ilrty Accord oC NO\·embu $, we fla~. with

othcn in lhi.s Hou.sc. fou$ht to cec aboci.Jjnaf tide and equal &:latus for botb the se.xes put bad: into our Charter of Ri&}lts a.ttd Fru:docm.. Our suootsliCS• in w-hqlc or In po~rt, lt.lY'C in ctfec:• IThJidc V$ • fuiJ pttrty eo tbiSo document. ln a 9CBSe. whethet it is for better ot for •'ONe. •·c. are. M3Ttled to iL

In my viC1to', i1 has in a. vtry rcals.tnk bt<n my JKirty's finc~>t ltOO.r. HQ'tt.· e<~n •-e now vote apimt it bec.ause of various impufcx:tioos? Tbete is much itt tbe resolution wltie.b any Member of Parlbtnttlt o-f gul>d will wQuld want to .s11ppon. Patri;stiun or QU.r Coostitution is probably not 54 years but I 14 ycan ()'lo'erdue. If oaly our Fatht rs of Confed~atklotl had produced a.n a.cttp1111>le to all amending form1.1tll in 1867. we ""vuld nol hJivc tb~ dead.l01.:k cwu the amending formula v.•bich ba.s not allowed us to pauiate tl~re Coostitutlon fur all these <ktadt'S.

u .nb.iflc.11l oorch fen ll<lliun$ ~"well as f« babies are best ct.~t at birth, U\11 tllen. hindsight ia always 20{20, 4\nd .,..~ h;av~ much to tbank these eady atatdmc(l (qr, mQoS:I ()(all for chc aeadon of tbe-mott fortunu lc natioo on earth.

The cqncept .,f an enucncbed Charter or Rlgbtll a..nd Fr~·

doms enjoys wide support io all p:•ru or Can.1da. oc:rUinly atnOI't£ tbc. m.:sjorhy <•( my ()()l'lstitueou;, aecordi.ng to a poU that I eo11duc:ted . Ho.,.·cvct, as a lawyer ud flS $C)JnCQfle who bangs John Die.fenbllktr's Bill uf Rjshts in bls offioe, I have, like many <lthc;o, b«n $1d6cntd by tbe wa)' that our cou.rts .h~ve judjciaJJy ·CXUactcd mou of l.he vitality ot th:~t 6ill of Rights oa the p~mise tlwd it i5 j~o~sl anotbc.r federal $t.Uute applicable <>nfy i11 t.he federal spi.tit. To m)' knowkdgc .• it h:l$ been appliod to override po.rt ot a001l1otr niCIO'Illure only in 1hc Dr)'bones case io 20 )'CM S. PllrndoxM:IIUY. the c:o11rLS wiiJ ao I008tr be able t.;~ ignwe an entrencbcd Chatter of Rights iUld

FrcocJoms becau.se tbc Charter ol Rights artd f'rcedhml.l in tbe mos.t basic sen9C st:u'ldll.ab<lve the court.s.. •lbeit sub;c.:.t to tbeit intaprd11tic.m.

Wb~h member at P:~rfiamcnt WIIDtt~ to vote agaim-t ~ntn:nehing suet. thi.naz; as freedom of religion aod peaceful IL$SCITibly? Whiclt one of us is oppoiied to mOOilily rig.hLS for our fd iO\lo' cltlzcM? Our rcspecth~ con;S.t:ituents surely fa11ou.r loe.g;d right$. ir.duding the right to tife and Jibert)', pf(lkl(:tion rro.n u.nre3$C)n;ebk lioeaf'Ch and seizure. 3tbitraty detcntWm, tbi: rigbt 10 rtuo.ublc llllilaod 01 host of otbu matters. Tile same. of course-. applies to equ;11ity right$, the barring of discrim.ina4

tion based on ta~. colour 2nd rcli.a,ion, et.;. fTYonslotlonj

M a mem~ ol lhe Joint Committee Qfl OfficiaJ Lan· gua,ac.s.. I fully agree. of course. witb the· <:laullc:$ Q( the !>ill which wilt gr~nl equal rigbts to both off'tei.:d l3n8u3se~> ~ r:~r

Tltt Co11.11ituti0'1

u their lllle in ptrliamentluy in.stitutiuus and the Government of Canada is OOf'loerncd. Jn that rdpc«. I ·congratulate the people aod g()'lo·ernment of New 9nanswKt f<Jr hllving volun· tarily a"epced botb official Jang.uagei in the ii\Slitutions o( New Brunswict". l 111~ ooogratu!a.tt· the· p~r.n1as of tbe- nine prQvince:~ fur their ~ ftitb in prO\·idjng right:;~ for cducat~ ill tbe minority lang"Uagc. (Engli~·hf

I :~alute the nine pcemien; and the Prime Mioi$tet for ae«pti.ng our a•nendn'lent on the. equ~lity oi tbe two sexes for OOIII ~tillltioolll purposes and for Clltrc:.no;hing c~i$dng :.boritin:d rights.

Obviously S()tne membi:rt ot botb 31\lUJ)$ a roe unhappy about the extent of these amendments but some progress has been made in this House ut~ani•nous.ly.

On the good side or tbc ruolutioa as •·c:IJ.the new arnelldinJ formula of the Now:mbcr 5 aeootd removes one ol tbc abbot· ttnt feat ures of the ea.rlier Libemi·NOf> r.-mula • ·bleb would have \'I'Ciabtcd the votes of Canadian! for oonstitutionaJ refe· rcOOa on the bossis of pto~il)tes or resid.:aoe. f'int·clasa C-anadi:afiS would be ~ent11 of tbc: two 1.-c:ntmsl provi_n()ti.. All m hoer Ca_nadian5 would have been S«ond da.ss.

Mr. KO~ t EU\1 told th:u thtrt are some tblrd·da.ss citiu-ns in tbe terril{)riei.

Tbt new (Of•'nulll l<t light y~IIB better thiUu tit~ e'3rlit r on.:. 'fhi$ pu.cty tricrf to amend the formula to aive tbe Nortbwes4 TetTitorics a fighcjng chance for provlnoehood in the future. W~ ttyet llla.t the l .. ibc:r:tll< l:cckcd the OCiurllg!: tO supporl U.1 in tht~t proJ?Q!'lll.

Time U peni.na by ven· q!li(:kJy SQ I will brieOy t kdeb son1c of my profo11nd c:oooerns with this resol'ution. First. the mot>iti~ t)' rlgl•ts of the resotutton. :1$ I Jead it, bar affirmath'C action Pn::l&I'$0\S for :~ocially or ecooomM:ally di$:•dva=nta.sed people- if lhey li\•e ia higb employment provioocs. If that is $0, how can any n•e•n.be:r in t11is House from a lti&h cmpiO)'ment pi'O'Iince look any bttndi<:a.ppc:d .. di$lll>lcd or otb« socially dl;,advnn~sed eonstitucrn in tbc eye if we vote for that. CJpccially in tbe Jntem:.ti()n:.l Year of the Disabled?

S«ond, another part of tbe proposal would 1:Kir any evidentt in crimirud trial ~ it it would "'bring tbe a<lmini:;~tr~tlon of justice into disr<:pvtc .. , Along whh the Canadian Police~ efilt.ion and the C-anadian Associa.ion of C ruoWfl C()l.ul~l. J warry tl\4\t thb, .,..·ell intended as 1t is. wit! in odue time: k 01d to the adoption in Canada or allc U.S. t.1ioted evidence ruk. This bas 00r1tributcd in no s 11tall "'a)' to what I be U!.S. Chief Jusdce Ourtcr ha.\ recently c:·alled tbt:- "rtitn of terr<>r .. io Amc.ric;~n ~i tics . ObviCXIsly I am nol $1:L}'ill& th;u our ctin'le tate "-'i11 jump os bout six tin~~es to that of the United SUtes t.hc minutt· we past this rc:solu.tjon, bul what I am concerned about is t.h1U if our ~pericnce here begins 10 imitate tbei~ at 3 tesuh of this mca~;urc-aod ( acocpt t.llrt f:tct tbat it wa.s my JK•rty which introduQCd th<tt llmcod rnent u d ( regret it d id-the g\lill or innocence of some people in c:rimi.na1 trill ll< may become an

.. 13506 COMMONS DeBATES

Tht Ct>!fstitutlon

a ii.'OOSI irrdcvan1 factor. There h:t\'t been simpl)' too many biu.rre ll tquitlllls in the United Stales undt.r the tainted evidef)Ce rule to think othcr-.•isc.

Third. I find there ate proroisions in the cbattet wblcb ~ould

result in the abmioo sccti<•o, Section lSJ of the Climin;~l Code., beini stroclt down ;15 beioi UIKonstitutiooat. Tbat would mean abortion on demaOO. Unlike the PthliC· Minister. ""'bo indk:ued last week lh&t If that bappo!n$ thi:~ Purli.Jrocnt wovld simply re•en<:~Q Se<:tioo 251, I fear tbat a majority of Liberals opposite Jaek the- political .,.,m to briu~; s.ueh a rm:asu"' b:3ek into thi! House .. F~nh, and perb.1~ the ~~ important. 1 am oonttmed

about the absence of one member of tht Canudilln f-amily in lhit AcC'Oc'd and, o:'lupted wilb 11le conQerns that ba\•e been vote«! by the Premier of Que~ twd 1hc leuder of tbe oppoiltion ther~. I tun concerned 1.hi$ ;~bseBCe oookl ctcate unity pcoblem$ for the oounl1)' in the future.

• H'SO)

I mentiooed At t.he outset tbc fact tJ•at 0t1l)' 27 per oent c.>f rrancopbone Quebccen sctm to think this mauer .is -a eood l.bing" disttJrbJ me PfUfout~dly, as. I tbin.k it ntust disturb :ttl)' Canadi;~.n. D<.le$ this resolution really respect tbe. duali ty "''hich. the Pcpio-Robaru Task F<lf'Cc 1m N;•ti(Jnll l" Unit)" sai-d was e.ssenlilll for the c:uuntry to remuio togetbcr in the future? Some t~ay it does txu. i£ .so. why does Mr. Cbude R)'<lln $e<:m only a little less con«r~ tMn Premier UveS<1ue about imp:liin& a version of 1hc: Can11.d.a dause on Quebec unll:l teraJ· ly. <1nd th<~l in 0111 area that is of utl'I'ICtit concern :and scnS;ith·ity to 1he Quebcocr hls:to.i<::ll..lly?

From the t~t:mcfi'Qint of the anpopbonc Queb«cts, more· 0\~r. if t.he '"where the nun-.bets "':urant" te-st k irnpoocd on Quebe(-, bow many £ngli!lb !Kbool:s will ckxoe u!M.kr thal test"! Tbe mini::ner ()/ cdut'atioo h.u indi('llted it will be up to oDe third. ()d)trs including ooe oC the •ni'lnlH!rs ()J>J)()Sitt, lta\'f: pointtd Otl.t that undtr the. wording of the Jli"OP<.II>tl.l oow. if tl.ll anglopbone setld' bill ct.lldren 11) a f're:nch. scbool in Quebec, h~ yanddtiklren will lnit- tbe right to ll tl tnd En&li$h·llln~ gua.gc schools. That is a fine price. to pay for trying to learn tJ~e majori ty langoage of oDe) PfO\'iJioe. JTro~Uimiolf)

On the othef baOO, the Liberal members frotn Quebe~>-ibis b; qujtc irunic-do DOt seem to be willing to t!Uatantee the ri&bu. or fr;•nc:ophon~ in the Cbolrtet" wbkb they helped to draw up. An)' Clnadi:tn ~n;ed in tb~ history ufCanO\da koows that at its origin the ooumry .,..'2S born unc'cr the asrecment of both foundi11g groupg; ~baring tqu:t.l b;\l;ic riQhtll. When M:

deny 01 forget tb:tt historic fact. the ~Hire. OOorllry Is In jeopardy. As ooe of the min~ters opposite said!

Olifb«<IIIII>OI:flth.t .. kh<w-1 C'lt~;ll, <.:..,.<b. ""'"'iOI e.ti>l WiiiiOul Qutbcc.

To nnd to .l...oodoo a re$olution which would nM show that Can3dian d"WlJity would Yiolate ~he confederative agreement ol 1861. This is tl•~ ro3!1on why we mQ\'ed that amendment and I suon.g.l)' bope that .,..t wi.ll intnxlu<:t: <~nother one tomorrow dealing ••itb 11ection 23.

And fh•aUy. Mr. Speaker, on bebalf o( 1 counuy born out of an arrangement and some good wil.l , Cor the sake of Si r Wilfrid LatHier, GCOf&e Etknnc Cutier. Louis St·la\lrcnt aOO &everal ot.hel"l, I a~!( tbe L.iber.11 members to ~upport tbe nmendmet~l

Q()'wlo" under OC)nsiderv.ti<>n 11.nd -:.lw the amcncJnu:ot to be m()'{Cd tomorrow • ·hic.h will 001 impose unilaterally Section 23 on Q~~ebec but ....;u give it the. ri£ht to opt ouL lt is usdcss., Mr. Speaker, eo dodsc.. h.> sbut our cye:s 1.1nd acoc:pt u promis.e ()( renewal which forgets an essential part of our Jlational Jirc.

(Eog/Uh( Hoo. M•rt M•cGui~•n ($et:rr.tary of St•te ror txr~mal

Affairs): Mr. Speaker. more than one hundred )"<:ar:> ago:~ we Canildians Sltt aut on a yeat undtrtak.ing. At fust hesitatingly, subsequently hopefull.y. we Can.,dian.s bcaun tbe prooc:ss or biDdit18 a continent together to creste a countr)'. Now we are abc)ut to complete the ..... ork of 1!161.

In this, the- hu t week <>( our new constlttJLiO•ta1 dtbate in Cwda. our emotioM o.re 11 mixture of so.lisfaction gJ what we ha\'c. attained in tbe amended t"e$Oiution beJore us and ol rt~Sret 1;1.1 what we h~;~.v~ I'K)i bee-n able t<l AOOC)n'IJ!I i!1.h.

h would be ~;,$y for thoele of w. Cl<tl thill sKit I<> aivc wny ootit<:l)' tO &entimenU. of di$appointmcot. We hii\'C h.:td to uoccpt an ameOOing formula "''hicb "'"C c'CgtHd as serio\lsl}'· n., ..... cd. Yet il mll.$t .wrdy be: c.leo1r by nc.rw tJut "'e phu.:e ll much higher priority on the auuinment of 11. Cbaner or Rig,hts :u1d F'n:ed.:~ms than we do Otl any arnet~ding fOC'tnula. wbate.vt-r ils merit. ln fact, il 'A";J$ Ibis ve.r)' difference in priQriiH:$ 1}lat enabk:d us to reach agroement witb the dis.sentinJ seven. Like the &even, we pJ"otco;ted our bisbest v.111ue in tbe 3c::ttl1;.1nent: vnlike them, we tll"::itned firtt pl1.1cc- to the rigltu of C•nadian$. We fought. n<.Jt rQr pi)WU fen QUrsclr'd.. but (qc t he people, And we ""'Ofl·

fTronslali<m) Howt\'er, even In t he Cl!nadian Chur1er o( Rights 3nd

FreccSoou we have been uooble to ptot()."l tbe Canadian poople as rnueh as we should hal•e liked. Full proccction will be possible only if and when a future Quebec government, deter· mined to fl$hl for r-achc:r thin apin~t C\anlldll, hi:VIX$ to the provision:s <.Jn edliCIIli()fl. ln additioo, il will be pqs:!,ible OO)y if also t.he otbcr provinces do oot 0\'erride periodically !"he rights guarllnteet.l in the Ctwrt~r. Total pr<lto:<:tion depends on t h.:: C•)ntinutd &ood "''illuf pro~·i ctdal g.<n•crnrnent$and I he oontintt· ing '"igilancc of Canadians. renglishl

But eon1pletc. actualizlltion or p.;,tentia.l protections m;&)' QI.M Jx, needed at 1!:\'Cr)' moment -of OO!lllt.itutfon:tl life .. Profess.:~r W111ier Tern<.JpoMcy, perhaps t)lc co1.1n1ry'$ lendins c:i,-il W,)Cr• ties spcciu1i.s1 and t.he dir«tor of the new Institute of Human Righu at tho:. Uni11~slty ol Ott.3wa, d~..,~klopcd. the oocion or the Q"l'errido in ttle (.4nadian Bnr }?tm"~w in I !>7.$. t-Ie -"'1id:

I tdio•-c: • llo)l;.,.hlw.UIIldi>l8 dQII'C ••• W)" llc-illc oo!y rc·nn'lhn oteo 11CIOCI ~oe "" I!>C;~I.n: , . , ()ne ....,;c be; rd liuio: .o11d und<n~IAnCI lluillll< m-Ont~ll ~pm (1'01111 a <trl\11:$ bill (I( riJII~ u.o.l jOOi<i81 IC'fi~w ;, ._cf'<i qf (J\IntifliJI!l· t iYt and: pollet .~~Ciion ••• Wbellttt d~ <o• ru ;lo bcld ~tcblui•\' or odmi11istn• 1;.e ttl:il'lll. Ootuj~tutl\-c:« ;...,a.!kt. ~ fiOl t.f.,.t) S ~ lMporiAfll as lbe Det dwu lhty

.. NO"o-erobet 30. 1981 COMMONS DEBATES ).}507

a n doJO, aM as. l be bce thu in tQI•Ic:inc tlll:iJ ._.,,i«<, tbty u n ~mpli(yth(· UMoe tm~~t (I( the: a;n q( IU!bh •lldl ird'uM thcl:m "'itll prir.cirleJ 10 •bid fiOri('ly ·~ u4 will wml'l!l. (~'11• ilo.lirtc~ly. tht ~blk u..--·a,~n 10 ~dlt~ 1o>. E•~n In .-e United SQt«, tht SoJ.P!C~~~.t CO..n ltio• iMIJ'dAtN w•t f•• .... .,,,_~r Cclo!(ltCI!>.

""' ;u J~"~' • te ~I!(C "' " "•' .. m ~~(In!,., If Prolessot TarMpolllky j,~ risbt in e~limating lhal il U not

actll <I( Parlitament or of tbe legislatures that will from lime 10 time ncod to be dcda.rcd invalid. but ratJ1er adminis-trative acc.ions under their authority,then perbapt; I he peQple have DOt W.t very mu<:h lhrougb the imroduc:tion or tbe legislative O'o'«ride mechanism. hit sny event, t hey t:an bring i.nt ~> pia)· all their skUI~ in politK.'UJ l<:1bbying, Even if won;t oorucs to won~ And an in(rine,ing la•· is enacted. it bas a n\:Uitnum life. of five. yeats:, tbus alloo,~oing special interq t groups runber oppor1uni· tiq or df:rc:ating ,, ill fi¥e-year intetVals.

Our satisfac:tioJI on c:Jtit side d incre.!kd by ttlc knowJcdge I hat lhc-achie-;-enw:nt iS owil\s to our own efforts. h was tbe principled idealism and the stobboto duemtinstiM o( 1hil Prime Mjnister (Mr. Trudd u). thti g<werment, tbts C';I;UCU\S and thk party tb;at brougbt about the accord, Can anyone doubt t.lult, •·ithoot tht11 contribution. tbc:re 'II'Ot;~ld bave been M initiative, oo rnomen'lum, n<) result'! We wot,tld ha\~ been ut the beginning ratht'r than at tbi: culrninfllion.

• (UQ)t

('Thmslatlol'l)

That Q)flc:JIIsion is n)ost obvious ~·ben ooc Ct>m1>.1res tlu: uJmost totaUy negative a ttitud< or tJte disddent provin~ ~~ the rcdcml•pl'(lviru:jul o;onfercnce (If September. 1980, and tbd r l'tew dctcrmit\:ltiott to achi<-... ...- :1n liogrcemtcnt, in October. 1981. FOf our )'lltrt, '11-e were ""'illing IC) find a compromi!e at the-very first ooofe~n«. Indeed 1h<1t '"'"' why '11'<: called tbc OOllferencc-. HowC\'cr at th:u tln1~ there wlt$ complete intrumi· genoe on the PQrl of 'the d.illSendng eight. lt ""':t!l only IJ montbs later. after a continuing displa}' o( un011uing dttcnni· natioo to carry the project to completion Qn {)!If po~n. thut 11.0 lcccord be.;amt pos::sibl~ .. ·ben t hey realized that th-ey cooJd in no way bcuer its progress. Our strength ;tcbiev.::d wh:1t we;~k· ne$8 O()uld never boi\'C won. (E,slisA)

Atld now. the coostitutkmal r~t>l utit~n goes rrom here to the f'lLrl iamentot' the United Kingdom for linal disposition. I bavc said publicly many times tha1 th~ Hrit~~h gqvcrnmcnt wo1.1ld use ~·et)' ~siWe cm::u:.' h> put our re$01.utioo t hNugh their Parli<~ment, nQC becol.lse they had oommittod themselves to 00 so-altbouah tbey bad-but because-it w.15 tbdr c•blig:lliQn to do it undtt the ruld (If the Commomrret~Jth aQQ of interna l ion· nl law. Tbose who ec>mpared tbc constitudOI\111 convcntlor! to eonsult which the Supteme Cbuft at Canada fw nd t(l ex.i10t within Canada "'·ith the CQQ!ititutional wrn-ention under 'A'bi<:b tbc United Kins:dom wa' obli.god to en11et COrtititutional amcDdmenu requested by t lte Parli:~men t ur C.nudn thro1.1gh joint 2ddrcu fa iled 10 s ra$p the ele.meruat)' d istinction I» 1'••.-eeo noo·lllw and la .... Tbe Suprerne Coutt <>I Catl3d3 found that tbe OO«''StitutiOiliiJ OOtt\'tntkm at CQl'l~uhution ""'ilhill Canada w:u not leg;clly bind ins, whutevet else il migbi be. The

Tht COJ'I.ftlllttiOit

con..idtutM,mtl ('l()nventlan CJ( the Ut1i1ed Rin.gdom, bowt \"'t'.t. i$ leg.all)' biodioa bcx:a~Jse it b a r<quircnx:n1 ql Cwnmc.rn .... -c:•lth and intemation3l law .

l:'i.f$t, with rcspc:o..-t to the Commonw~hh, let us note the principles laid dO'I\'n at th~ Imperial ConferenQC.S of 1926 nnd 1930 3nd ensh1ln·td in tbc Statute of WCJ;tminst~r. These prindples UI'C sim.pk. All state~ nnd p:1 r liacnent$ 'vtunt;1ril)' associated "''ii.h.in tbe Commonwealtb are fully equal in status ~nd in nl) ""'!Y :r.uburdlnate-t<t <n1e anoth~M. Tl1ey relate to one another as cqu<O.Is and oddrcss one a.noexhe r t~-s OCIU34. $Q\'t.re!A-n state. to I}(W'6:1't'i8fl state aOO SO\'treign ps• liameoa to sovereign p.arl iamc.nl. A~ $T;u.:h.. tbey moty I1C.lt interfere in one anotber'$ ioternaJ «external affairs.

8}· .:XIntti tutioaa.l oo~v~tHiCJn, however, tbe Parllan~m oltbc Unicod Kiii.Jdom ecnads a~ndmcnl$ to ~he Canadi.1n C<.lnsti· tiHiM u requested by thc. P.arliament of C:u '-'\da. In t his ret:pect, t.he Pnrl iltment nf t he United Ki ntdom stands in d1e snn1e relationship to tbe Parliament of Ca;nnda as lhc Q1.1een to btt tnin.istt rs;. The Q\ltcll, ol cotusc-. Dtver exerdJiCS: ber powct$ without the lld\·i-c:e of ber mini.s-ter$~ 11()1" relu:r.e,; tl) exetcise het po"'·ers when her n1inisters a dvise her to exercise them.

Su it Is with Westrninster>:~ power of atncl)d~ot of the Drh.i.~h NQrlh t\maic;, Act. Thi~ p!JWer rcm:liM vc~tc:d in the United KingdQITI Parliament vnder !he Statute of Wesunin· ,Ucr. lt mu::~t bo: cxcrcil>td UJIOn I'C('jue;\.1 ~nd as requested. Thst i,; tbc relat.ioMhip to whic;b Cn.nada collSCnled i.n 1931. Th<11 b tbc d uty whjeh Btitnin tbC11 accepted.

As c.trly as 1937, in his classical work on "Tbe la'A' and tbe Comrnonwc:~dttt", R. T . ~ UtJtam wrote thu ' ' ••• Cocnmoo· wcallh convwtion.s may pro~ w be or to bn1~ bl.tomoe indis• tlrtguisb11blc from rulel ol 11'1u11icipal oe international law/'. 1'he tent;Jth·c (;I)I)Ciu.~K,n ol' 19J7 ha.s bo:oorne the. n:alil)' or today. Soveteignty, <:q:1.111Jity aod oon· interfcrence ore <:Drdin.al principles of int«natiol'tallaw. Thcse prindpdcs appJy bct'll'«tl CQm mc)41wcuh h Sill l e~. Tbcy deu.rl)' rcq~;~in: t he V..rti;&mt:nt of tl'le United. Ki.ngdorn to act ooty in aocord.ance with the wi$hCS of th~ Parlia.m.ent (l( C2nada in the ~me.r~dment of the Btitish Notth Am<rica Ace

In intern11t ;on~1 !;1w, the 10-1 me reit~ l t is u /Orlit)r-i. Tht re Is oo ques.~ion 1ba1 Canada is a fully soveteigo and independent .Hate. n~>r t it.~ I tlill- federa l to:wemment al<'lf'le. is COirtpc:lcnt to speak for Canada in aU m:uterl> eoncerrtinJ fOJcign n:l:.tic.ln$ and to enter ir.ao treaties oc1 bc-.half or Caruda. Both uocf.er the British Nortlt Am«ka Ace and t he L11w of Nation~ the Pf01o'inces of Cllnad~ bll\'e no il.liU$ bl.yo:nd the OOund;u i>ts o r Canada. Tbis ha.s bc>co unch$llco.god comtjtul i\'lnal law since t_hc Lu/x)ur- Corwr.nti(m.t e.\~c: in 1937 and Is embodied in1Jte IXp.trtmeot o.f E.lltemal AITain Act.

h foiJOW'$ ftom ~be \Sc:wercign $t\lllu:; e>f s.1<JtC'4 in intcm:ati()n:.l bw tbat other states c)we them a duty o.f non·inccn·cntion in their intcm"l <1r cJttc:rna l ;a(t':t.it!. This duty 13( Ol)n·intcrventiou i:; a mastet pri.ucip,le of interna1ion.1l low. Dcwi<Jt iocu t'rom -S(IVC't cignt}' as CS;ltlblisllt>d by inttt natioo:tllaw can oocur ooly by trc;ny, 11nc:l t he <:t:ntml n.111l1'<' of trc.:u_y law it tbt double cri terion of consenl and $)'tnmctry. If, Mo 1he Kef'$b;~""· repon

.. IJS03 COMMONS DEBATJ;S NO\·cmber :J.O. 1981

lhe Con.l'lil~liOfr

daitnS, the. relltti.(lnsh,ip between tht: tv.'Q t:l)untrie;s ill of .a quaM-treaty ~bara"Cteor, it w-ould ha"'e to be brougtu about by the CXpt(llscd aod ut~ul\'01."'31 ooniltnt of Can.sd lan ftdet:~-1

1111tboritk~. who ~•lollt ba\'C COQ1petenoe in tbe matter. and matebcd symmetrically by constt~t of the United Kintlfom throo8}11LS ~rtunent « Parlbmtnt.

There i$, Qf '""~' tWChinJ in international lnw. in Ccxn· monwe:altb Q!Stonl. in tbc rc«>tds of the Jmpctia1 Cooferenoes:. in t he Statute ot We$tmin$h!r n1ior in sny e~prell$ed ur !mpltcd U'eaty relatlonsbip to support the contention t.hat Canada ba.5 gained anything but full independence. or b:u left Brh~in with 11 rdid ual re~sxm~ibility t b:u ,.,..,.uklgQ 11) the very be<~rt of ou.r i.nternuJ affairs . Ca.nada has ..ev« ooa~ntcd to any gucb d«ogation from ()w ri.'Sp!)tl~ibWty and Dri1.o1 in h:u neve-.r dajmed it. Britit~b g,o~nmentt~ and British patl.iameatariaos, on tbe ooouary. have affitcned for many yests and at tbc hltJ1dt l~·d tb~t Wcstm_inJtt r i$ duty hound to :cct in aCCJ()rct-. aJtcc witb the retttt«t of tbe Cnna.,ian Parl~ment in maue~ 61 r<~Mtituti«uil r.m~ndrutilt

There mitht be .1ometbi.ng 4ii!illuieting ill tlti$, del;lpite the legalitiC$, if we were asldn_g We.stmiB:Uet to make our dccisioos fOf' 11!.. But. of courSe, we :1re not doing that. Tl1e j()int address .,..ill a$k rbe Uoited K.logdom PlLrJi~meot to implement the decision, not to make one. The. political respons-ibili ty is our.s.. and OOtS II)OI)t. Only t11e lt'80tl f<Wm h:a11 to be fullilk:d in Brit~ in,

The attainment of fll ll Canadjan comtit u.tlocaal indepen* denc::e, "''ben tbe linul lc~l flteps lite t;cken in the United Kingdom, wm perhaps mark a sli$ht adYance in oor in1erna· tioBSJ recognition, a fuUer legal exprcssk>tt of the SO\'«eignty 'l'' t b:we $1() of\en demQmstt:tted in inte-rnution1.1l dclibcr.tti<m and action. But I bcltcve its oonsoquefl9C.S "''ithi.n Canada, on the-otb« 1t1111d, will ~ e·m'lr1n<tut.

Not t>nly hJt,-c: we uddt'd to l)llt in$ti tutioos a Cb;~.rter of Rights and freodoms aloog with a mochaniim for future amendments to our C'oostitution, but what Is to my mind e"\'Ctl

more imporntnl is tbnt we ha~ 11dlkd to our $<ilf4 p w;ucn( ll5· Wbat -.--c are now saying to ourseh-es. in a fotm of sacred writ-out Consthutic:m- is th.111 -.-e .ate bilingu;tl Ot;ltmtry. ll multi<:ultur.:t l eoo.nlry. 3 d~moetltti<: country. a wunto· 'llfbere God-given human dgbts take preocck:ooe 0\'ct the man-ma<k l tructurtfl <11 the $l:lte. These nrc fund1uncntal Uuth.' whicb 3rt import<~_nt for 1.15 to realize and e.J:press to oorsclYcs and to tbe .,.'Ot'ld. The act of fmmalidng dtem s:ett us 1>11 the- tiXld to fulfilling t:hem. 1'h~ i:~ w-hat I tnoell_n! .,..·hen I ,._, id ut tlw.: beginning tbul we are about to QOitlplete tbe work of 1867.

• (UUll

C.n3diaM ai'C not, as a rule. a demonstrative people., But at our innennas-1 heart I believe there lies a great 16\·e. fOt tb.is c<lun try we slum: IOS:etller. a dee-p pride in wh;u we howe rn,3de of this po~n of the new world, aOO ant~nsbakable determination to pr<:SCI"\'e our free and SO\'t t t igll uttiM.

Cunadiunfl hll\'e m::anifested th.i$ in man)' •·01~ during this year-lon3 debate: in tbdr answers to pollsters of their strong support f« tbc charter: in thdr :tttc:cnptl., i.n grwpc und M

inJh·lduals. tO impfO\'C the C:ba/((lr; in l hc JVOU~ of -.."<)men, fOf' in;st<1nce. wbC) brought powerful pl'(lmicrs to their koc<s; and ultimatdy c:vc-.n in their impatience to see tbe prOCClls bcougbt l!u<:ttSsfully to an end. Jn a real s~K the cba.cter is theirs. Tbey '~''ll nted it, tbt:y amended it, a.l)d now they ••iJI have it to protect lhem, In the -..w(bqf ollr n:tt i<lnlll lln.:thc:m: (Tran.Y14ticm j 1t will ptote« l)I.IJ bomes and our rigl1t1.

(£ ngli.tlr) This is the lcg:ccy of dw: bst )'Cit..t. the leytcy of a g~at

cottdtry wbet'e the fr-anoopbone minority a n no.,.. fed at h<II'I\C ~rywlw:re, wl1ete the ot\\' peoples from beyond tbe seas can see tbeir C\llturet; fm eo $urvive.. ~nd wbere all ea.n fiDd ~thing new and ridlet in b<:ing Canadian. lt i$ :1 k:.~cy "'e

are proud to k:uv.: I() lhe ftct ure.

PROCEEDINGS ON ADJOURNMENT MOTION

lE~tgiiJit j SUWI!C1' MA11€k OFQUESTtON.S 1'0 6EDti8"'rF.O

1'k Actht' S,uker (Mr. E.th:ier): Order, pl.:aie. lt is tUy dul)·, pur(Su:lnt to StaOOJng Order 40. to inform tbe lif>U$C tbl.l t tbe questions to be- r3.ikd toni&bt at tbc--tin1e of adjooroment ate as foUows: the boa. member fQt Central Nova (Mr. MtccKay)-Admi.nistration of Justioe-Revic::v.· of mandatory supecvi.s:iQJl policy. (b) Opc:r:Hi<ta o f s.r.;to:-m: the bon . . member fot Vancouvu Centre (Mis.s Carney)-Tbe 6ud~t-lmpac:t oo oc.~fu;truttM:m or rtrttal bousing. (b) Request that provislon$ b<: amended. (c) t\nnuuncenM:nt of study tesuh.s: t h(l bon. member fot Oua••a-Vanicr (Mr. G<~u thier)-the Coostitu· tion--f'r:trK:ophonl?ll Otlliide Q uebco-Prot()(:Cion of rights.

GOVERNMENT ORDER'S

fl!ng/islt) TH-£ CONSTITUTION

R_fSOWJ10N Rt;SI'ECTINO CONSrtT U'I'tON ACT', 1931 Th~ Hauiot resu.ned <:o~ideration of tbe smen<.t<"d moti(ln qf

Mr. Chlitien respecting the Coosti:tulton of Cantlda. the a.ne.ndment tbc-re~o of Mr. Epp (p-. IJ49'2.) nnd the ,ub3metld· mcnt q( ,\fr. Br.:a3dbtnt (p. 131(97).

M r. Gordoo 'l'owerll (Red DHr): Mr. Spea.ker, this l$ the first time I ftave pre,·:ciled upon the House to hii\ '.C. an opportu· nhy to 11'11t.ke some comments on behalf or ~be rl)llny ~ I n:pre:seot, in conjnnc:doo witb .SO«ne o! my own thought$, First I would like to gi ~·e a sreut de:aJ oi" cn:dic to the bon. member

November 30. 1981 COMMONS DEBATES IJSOO

for Pro,.enehcr (Mr. Epp) or o-ur pany for tbe- work be has done on this Constitutioo. He has done an o~o~lknt job and _b;e.~ .scrnxl us "''ell.

Jt it i11dcod ll.llfOr1UJI2le th:H tht On.&Oillg dtbate On the Constitutioo Ius PJ'O(fvced $41Cb acrimooiws feelinp tod senti· menu lltr<l6S Canada becwe«J pr<IYioocs., betv.'ten the: proY­incc. and the ftde--Jal govcmrntnt and bct-vil:o:n grouP!~ and indivldUJib. It hu piucc.l f"C8ion apinst ~sion of our fair land. I regret that the Prime MinisteJ (Mr. Trudeal!) bas prtSlled witb tu!duc h3.11tl: l b put together what I con:lidcr a $-lap•d:l.~h rcwl11ttc.ln whkb. to me. is scoond-rate. The time fn.me beinJ rorocd on us in Pa.rtismcnt a.lkw.•.J lluk- limt for So.lbe-.t seotlf'ld thousht.

A murty coostitutiooal resolution was furtbtr clouded by a futt)' Suj)ftme Caurt r11Ung. Certain <JUC$ttc>ns h~ve to k .ukcd. Wben does somcthiog wbitb hu become a OOfi\'Cntion become legal? At what poil'lt io time does the COIYUtiOn law O(

COOvtrttion jl:U$ C)n:r inl() the br;ld•bc.KJnd 11-.f'CJlil or legl~ljty'! 1$ it POI:u;ibk: I bill a measure could be accep(cd through OOO\'tO· tion aOO at tbt stutle- tht1~ be nksat? b it IX'l!l;tible- fw a mea.su~ tu be l-eg;~ I ..nd ut the same time IIOtonvt'llliom.t.l?

I do not think the Supreme Court did tbe nation any favours with its ..-ague ruUng, btn it did !>it the Prime Mini$ter down. h l,i~YC bim 11 ~lap i_n tb; fa~ ao..t ollo·•·cd lb' prcmk:l"$ of d1' provinces to be hca.rd. lt ga'~ them some breathing toonl.

What of Que~-·~ dai_m thotl it $t~ll b!M n vc1o power? I',; thoere v~tidity to I bill IIIBUment? The Minister of Justi<:e {Mr. Chrtticn) say~ no. and he and the P!'t>1nkr of Que-bee Crlg<J&e in :a conte~t <ll pc:r$(1n;ll nameoe;u.IJlns. There arc too many -ifs" a.nd too many grey ureas for the g-o\'trnmem to ask Partiamcat to rush its judgn~-tnL

The SUOd i~ Q(ten the c.ncmy of the best. The oonstitutional rcsolutioo mig.bt be good for sonu ... but for others it is not just tbat g<>od, and f01r .k'lmc it U just plain bad. 1'h:at is nc)l the c .. nudi:~:n W.J)'. I ilm not bappy with any mc:ssure which t!IOIII'$ for .spoeial status fot any ptO\'iJlOC! or art)' segmt:"IH of out $0C:Ic-ty. Th-e C<llutitutM>n sh<.lu}cf be she single n'I0$1 imPQrtl&nt do<:11ment in our S1atutcs. If tbet'c is an urgent and prCS:s.ing need for a Co•u.tittHioo or a dtb:ltt on a Constitutio.ln 111 this tht1e, I muu quc.stion whether there are oot ltt<)fe pJessing items on tbe stove with whitb Parliament should be dealing. The Constitution sh.ooJd be placed 0t1 the lx'lc,k burner until more impcwtant «anQmie m<&t~r$ llliYC bct:n deah lll'ith and rcsoh'Cd.

As a nntioo we h<n"'C b«n in business for 114 years. We have maRa8ed to sutYiYe that loog ••ilhoot llny written, fonn11l Const:itution. F'or t he ~$t SS year$ the foderalsovernment and the provinces ha''t held periodic talks on lhe matttr of pattia· tton and an amending fmmub. While n<>thing t.in,Siblt· hap. pt:ncd, none. can deny th:n lK)fne progren was made:, 5lowly b11t $\lrd)', like a &lacier m<l'-'iltf. across tbt laDdsc!pe-..

C.1nada has b«n ffiO\'in& IOIII'tlrd full oatioohood- a free and Independent rra tioo. Moot of our externa l ilyn•bob or n:~.ticmh<'ll.'ld .arc in p{.,oc. Cu~J~~djp"' were- a.ivcn a distjncth·e CaBIIdian lla,g a1ld, I might .tdd, not without 5ome bitterness

Thif C'tJtutitutiow

and I"Cietltment. Some ~iU rcfet to it u the Lib«al rug, h is un.foruo~tl::tte. but h i.s ttue~ The Ubtr:1IS b1ou.g,ht tbis upon tbcmselvc.s by tbei.r approach to the iils-u.c:. 11 ju:~t did IM>I need to be tbat ••ay. h was very mucb mishandled.

In 1945 tbc House of Commoru; "'Oted, ISl to 2. in faY<~Ilr of h:aving a dk tinetive 011g. In am tlte Red Ensign wa~ put for.,...rd as a $U\:I$tilute for the VnJon Jack. un.til a new· fbs wi!S appr<wed. a.nd this happened about 20 )'tars later ... 0 Cana· d~" w.s :•d<)I)Ccd ~$out i>lrtebl tl:uiooalantht:m. Thi~ too was t slo'a· Pfooe6$.

1t has been alleged tbat t nation which~ nQt h:I\<C ill; qwn oons-tltutiM, iu o.l,.'tl autonomous institulioM and its own national flaa is ool free. In 19SS the t.hen mini~tcr of justice, Mr. Ga.rson., dctieribc:d the present situatioo wbcn the qiiC$tiorl q( t bill of righl'l wll.'l deb:!l led in the Hou.ie of Commoas. He sll.id:

\\''- ne Ct 1 AAili()n a <obidl <oc lru:u·c u. ~te'Uc rt- I he i'lttl.lm~l of (he lhlit.! Kq<Joo:~~ 1."~.,., 10 '-"" C•l...;.til.tiiiJO • il. ~~ Cll '11 ot !btu IIW\Itn (1/ jolnl rotiCml 10 C'IMdill Uld dl(. pi'O"ii!I:U.

Thls S(~tte of .:ll~tituttonal subordinatlo.ln wt~t relished more by Canadian pol.il.itians tba_n by lbe lkitJsh Parliament. lt •'11$, and is. 11 COIIvt1lient ptot~ion 1J.3aiost emtxl.rnt..S$i.n£ dcm~~:nlb ror l.'(lnstitu.ti<nl:ll reform. NOile in tJti~: House w·i!l dilla.GJCe (bllt it is time lo end the pi"QI:cdure whereby lmlcndments I() the. Catl::tdian Constitution. the British North Amerita Act, must be referred for &pjlf()'l'td 10 ttu~ British P..u liamcnt. That is ooc giant step toward full Can11dian Mlionbc)()d. NC)b)dy argues about that. but when we teach this stage, •'C must tbco proceed wlt.h caution. We mu.'U m$.k"e haste dowly.

h is incooccivabk: that Canadians sho11ld be expe(."(cd to I&CO:pt :1 full grown a11d full blown Can.ad.iarr Constitution oYetnight. Constitlltio.ns .1re oot made; tbey 8111W· They g,row tJ~rout,b y~r!r-nay, centuries-of custoru and ~.tSage tbrollgb oonvcn tioo and pnu;tieq.

The United Kingdom has oo fomlal, ""riUen coJWitutjon; it has llun·i,·cd rur almost a tbou~nd )'t:lN 1111lhout one. Yet if one were to as); 11 Britoo i f he or she bad a constitution. the ans .... ·er v.'Oltld be yes. He or sbc would point to t.he Mapa c.,ca, h~tbea,s <.Wput and 11. ~b:r.y of oc.hcr statute-s and s:.:tfcguatds etched in law, custom and Ullllgc.

lf we h;ad h:~d a to.utltuti<ln during tbe so-eaJJed Octobct crisis, I wonder whether C;m:uJiM.~ wm.ld ha\'C been lltl)' bcuet off. Would lhcit ci,·il rights have b«n bcl1cr protected and sua..,ntecd had a fmtna l document bcett in plaoe? I dtink ....

illi::re ari:- large nu.1llbeNi of our people who arc Yet)' con· <:ernod abo11t tbe directic.lfl in whkh •·e in Can::tda are t,o.ling.. My ooUcague for Edmootoo Strathcona (Mt. KiJ£QIIIr) men· tioncd the trend ta.·:'l.rd d1C An.cricaniza!.ioo of Canadian law. r want to read p11.11 (I( $ letter (rum ()()IIC"enled Canadian.'\. lncldcrttaUy. this letter~~ signed b)' SC"'I'eo ~;;C-RCMP pc:nonMI and~ retired 8.C. pn:wiBti.:IJ court judge. I III"OOld like to Pill it on t he record. I q11otc:

.. ) 3510 COMMONS DEBATES

e II?:IM

Wl!ll t~ kdtftl J'"tHtf!'lclol UII(M.._I('ICIOI t lat no.~l ~uril) ~ b<i<~8 ..,..-a~ at • ~,."lliji\)' (1( lbe R.CMP. Cu&W iJ II~~~Xhfr -oup .-l~r .o ~inc dw- A(Ja.lnbtall o( North Am~lca. Alld I( ll:te Prime Minb~er or ~ & 'l~_fUc !!CQCdll!l)' III~='C fii&JIISI. C.otUdial$ arc nm. Ca11ad;.fll'l ltleo *"'*~ thtt l)~r (r«:dYm iJ blit1 ~ ~ Ot.t•w~ mll!obt-. lq:itllllion -...1 p.4jli~l Wll"'ktionJ. Thry ~~~alto 11\0l rt lluu s..:ll COOl'll<:lionur~ - ~ri• I)' thf.oon•i:do~ e~r tile ..p-1111111·-· "'$il1>1t- IN,to'lrily. C'afl.ldu-n' •~~o•'l: 111\0t)'li .akdl ~ .. the: k-locdec ' "' ' •heir ~~ •bil. W'i•l ud. politic.! liiKrl* .. _ brinc -iluei~ u d ~t«t(Oj 11)--oftk ""'fld'$ fill4:•l b<dy ol ~~~tn cnat3td Ill polb 10/Ut.

l<ldty, llolt pri6r. it bcin1 t)'$1cm11tiq!l7 oJo:~~IN)W. f.m, lt. K•111 O..m~ni,. '""' t11blocl its ,_mmtlllittioQ to -rol tilt RICdia.. Thto~. l)!e NcDowld c-iuiOII b101111b1 r-ud 't~ oboi-ly dtti;M! l>)<lllberr~u. bu!IQi. lite, llnd lltlfl$ 10 &11 atd, the dTo:tiw~ flltll~ .Ro}>~l <=•-dioon MCJ.Dttod ~i« $oo11rily furn .

C::.trol tho medii. contR'II Ik U<!lril,_ad yo. <-tol tll~ COIIflU). Simple: AUIIt t.

I brlng t h.iJ to tbe aucnljon of bon. members bocau.se Canadians atC; 'V'Cry concetncd aJ (0 what Is happening (0 (heil SCoCilth}'. I am sure: thAt all mc:mb.:T$ rl'Oeiwd a brief On chl: Cenadi11n Com.titution from tbe Canadian Police Association. I quote:

"ne C><n.ooli3n P\.:llkf "-ialion v.uniJ h ckartr •lld~ lh~l • • ..-. 1101 opi'Q!Ifd 10 C'1111.1d.~ ll,vl~~t ~~~ OWl!. COfi:Ri!ulhnl, ,.llt(ller by pml&lioll or ~« 10 a Chlrw or Rl&lob find Jl"~~t ""-h •..ell fllnda~»t~~ul kfd prlntlf>lcs *' tl'ln kao1,..d O.cqtl ilulio.omll;,nt~lllf.'" 1(111$ ~ f'atli~llltnl 1nol 11!1: lqiolt l'-'" ~ill llMI •bu. • il) die «<WU lht f11n«io. of Vo'dvilll C.11llla'' 'ri111in..r "''"' • !Id J'I'O.:tdur~ in ,..urt )t.:~U.

we .w. P 'C'O't<, ••.ott~r ~· I>) ''" daottfll~~~'> ,..,ns.1 or lloo: Ctltnct M Riafllt tlld f~ ~ p....,.ntfr P'lJpoMd w_,ll. in 01.0r ~. "'Will MlhMi01lly affto;t our niminal iutliof. sy,tun and. .Wl('lllll: Putiiomellt'J 111•

•llowi~y Ul:d r«p)I!Jibllll) 1u dl~ prfolwlry tl=ll'di.ln ~ 1-.h: ti@lll£ or C11nad:loln Chi:ti:I\P.

I• WWO"illl lhl po.Mio» 11kcn by d w C'antdfan AI:IIKialiln ol Chit(, d l'dioe: .ud the Co111611iu Aawci:ldon of CtO'Q Coouo~l,, IIIC <:aflldla11 Nloc Au.oeb .. dofl. o.. bchllr or _,, ~.000 mcmbrr$, hereby cs_r rc»U ;c. '"'"" ~~~ tq)ltclifll o.Nain ~iJitAJ « lbf. Culldb11 Cho\N('r or R.i&:blf ond F~ whkll for• a put of'-'t p,..td Cuorldiu COUllllulon 1ocl rdllt.e­d!J«dy 10 I~W~I afi/Sj or ll.w .,nf;wet:ftU! ~-

T h• ,.-.)rdifO$ n<1W bffon "-•!it-Ill il-il« the W.lfU iil Caiii',Jo to ~ lk U.Ued Sl.l,_ c.cele:tionUJ nM .. ~~h b.:u M•~ b«-11 1k b w or <:-d.-.. EII~Jiud or 1bc «:a of tb: C.:Oon!l.-c.:okh.

Let me imprc$ll c.h111 lbcce boa oe..-er been as good a fwcc in tbc world as tbe British rule ollaw and Briajsb justice. The quote continues:

'The ,..l ionalc. or llo IJ•it<d Sw.11t1 apptO«h 11 lh1 «JIIIU un .upc!I'Vi~ and dho: ipl!nt pollc~ b)'llle ttl('r.Lb:ol ..:l uu..:li)n fJt ~l(lt,d!n& t«!Ot:uoe l oci dlt~tly pN1.«1 tbe d lilliibe,.ics d j,.s'nldwk Th< A~ .. ~~~ ~·pcril:~~t~: ;, llliU oli, '"""lio" <:/lh' w<orl,. is to - rdl ror ,,_b 11,-~villll all r.~lov.1.n1 P"Ninr« ollld tile. bMI •l)· to •fOJ"be u d ~iiiCi f»>loe ~IKI lbeuby llfOI«t doc d.-il libeftitos o(C'allldWII$ I$ by bdo.e.lle.Cl"' d!t~IM to police and by >illlalo:t..:no jll'-llliotl ud/ Ot cli-.:ijlli!lnyiiQt.-1"1> f.or pdi~ 11) -&&:1 il!~ll, oo im;oO'Of'Ctl),

[ fed the Liberal p·ernment baJ Jet tbe RCMP do•·n vesy bad])' because of Its mitMtldlins 61' ahe po!i<:e 11.00ct abe MeDoall.ld commi~~Jic>n inquiry. We ljve i n an impufec• $Otic• ty. We are being asked to .sanc(ion an impetfcct document. Stc:pllen Lcaeod: oooe:. wtole that abe only pia~ ()(le is likely to find perfec1ton is in 11 SQC:h&Ulit commonwealth o( •naela. He is J)rO'lxl.bly rieh1.

I' catttlot a~pt a., imperfect rdofucim'l y,•hk:h is bound 10 ~:rell te mc)fc probkw and more. d jvi.sion thun it vtriJI $01\>e, Thc:tc will be oou.rt case after court case. 1t will be a gold mi.ne

ror lawyer&. h will create ll lrc(llCndou;s worldf.dd for tbe. ooorts. Many of thC; isstJes will be cai:en out of PYrJiameut antS pla<a:d in tbect>wtroom ..

Tbe litany or imperfcc:tioos U; lenilhy. Any qne. it re;U<ln enough (O oppo&e thls measure. Taken together, tbe su:m total ()( evid.erKe aga_in:tt it is ovcrwhdming. I cattnot ift OOI!Iscienoe. support tbi$ measure in its presenl form. l~:anrn>t in oon,;eience absuin from voting agajt~tt it. J must in conseieoce speak out apin$1 what I believe· 1s wrons and imp:r fe:ct. So1nerstt Maugbam onoe wt'Ole: Censci~ is llle JNrdlut la tilt kdl~111 or tile J'ldls w~h tbuom""'ltlity

troucol,ll>cxt fOJ iltsoon ~11011.

One thing for WJC, I htwt not bad 10 wrestle my coll:Seic.ncc tO lbe gro~;~nd , I hu \-c! been 8uided by lhe Sd\Jice of SCOf'tS of oomtituents who ba'oe contacted me. Their advioe and liUppl)tC hll\'C· confirmed my own fiMi11gs, strca.gtbcned m)' r(S()Ive and &cpuri'Cd oo my QOPv:idion.

Reycuably, l:at1guage at1d imtitutionaliud bilingunHs.m bu been a divis.-ive fac tor on the road 10 1111tionhood. AlmOS-t 30 )'Cars ago MtJ.SOo Wade v.•roee:

Dd1lny.-o( ch~n~Ufr. booM or f~k. bM JNd••h• Fh:fldl.(:uaoli.o .. ~ a ••~c pt0p6: it 11~ lll~llefl SCIU<C' (I( lk 'l'Ofd. So bllliU the)' (1011 ... 11' ~ 5pea}. thf F"'""h 1~1181=-1>< 111!llit po«ik; ¥i1id aid ~j!ld lafiP~~ In '"t':M.tfll<i•'tllu•• l;,n- ky moy ~ Ollf I"J''M" •"" •c oho:in, "'t ,.~ can o..-.-er be a Jill8k ,..,...

Does this mean v.oe must d<:Spair of making C;uuda a truly ll-lllt~o'<l ooolltr)'? Nor at aiL We must fi rst roooBJiize chat "''<= h~ve a &fNt deal in oomm<ln l$.nd tl1:1t '<~~'C brave madeeoormous ptO@I"CSS toward mutual undetsUindins. The g(IOd wlll tha.t ai::sted before the prtstnt ltllurc of tbe Prime Minister W';\S mueb supniot 10 \NI whkh u l.lt1 1txby. The hatreds of (oN!'Itt tlmcs wtf't almMt dead a.od the)' musl not be re..-ived.

Sew:l";l!l ()( tbt df.l)jct of frletiotl ""'bleb bave been at tbe botlom of tbc "i$CS of lbe paM mu,;:t oot be allo-wed (0 reappear. One may say, m«cover. that to the deg:rte thilt Canadtan11 btcotne. more Canadian. are more proOO of theit country. admit no otber aliCjiltm.:e th;•n d1e:y o....<t lO their cotu11ry. they ate bccom.itlg more tolerunt u d more oopeo to mut~l un<k'ltanding. Tl)is mountiog ptide sce.ks expre-ssion ..

I eanoot $CC a Canada wbere there 15 n<." equ~lity ;•ppli.ed equ:•llr in all of tbe: tCtt ptO\•IAecs. I cannot see a Canada wbere there i3 OM .set of rules for nin.e <>f the ptO\'itl..-e.t aM another set for the tenth PfO\'inoc. I cannot envi11ate a (:<'!natS;a wbc.re. a peMIOn Is 4XC1uded (tom promotion or adwtno;ement bocausc or hiJ or her mother tongu-e.

1 cannot tolerate a federal public servioc, poJice roroe <.~r Department of National Detente • 'bere. language beootnet poramount over merit. The meri1 pcincipk lull $tr,.,ed our country well a11d lt .,..iJJ continue in the futul't ir ah·en an opport1.1nity.

I bc:liC\'C that tbc journey towards \1t bilin.gu.-.1 <:uunlry "'h(Juld be 11 vol u.n.ury walk. 1.ot a (orted march. At tbe preseo~ time I want 10 Wing to tbc truentWn CJI tblll H(JUSC a problen't that alits for Englisb-spcaking people in tbC; PfO'I<'ince of Quebe~:. I Wl1nt 10 quqte from two articles in tbe November 21 Montreal Gtu~ue. I quote:

NO\'etttbcr lO, 19$1 COMMONS OEBA TES IJ)ll

8uQJW b) !.be ·~ M.,,,,.,. ...t .. _; sroups iR t«ti111 thfir rislrts tHwrcd 10 lhc _,,,;(llli0!\11 ~ Q.x~'' Pro:u•am K'llool bo.lrds blW. bquoo p.l$inll P:.rliut«nt 10 fil'II'J.nl« l!n~ tducadoa ill u-. ,.on-.

T*""'"" tl:l•oe bclell t11«1 off IU Prime W•i>~~:t """" Trudulu and J.,.­Mlllklu J.dt~ e t .. ~ .. .. ,

The. wmttit.tiO!!IOII pt(lp(IUII$ !lOll' bi'IIIJ ckbl.otd bJ Piltlb.enl tpaune.o fll.ltoools ,.ll«e n11111bm wJrruc (O f~~o~ntu~•c;..,cr,i;4 Qr.ot.: .. ~h • liaibilil)' tbl.pi) ddlllotd 1U "<* ........ _..,_ IOI'IJ.IIf i1 Fr.l(;h. OJ UIO$C ..,~ ,_f'(IIU: wcrc aluM I..d ioo Fnn~ 311}Wbl!~ In Cll!Mb.

Uo.,.'ll•«. lt«bfr d&IIIIO-tlw::- the b'wd.i .....,..,, rcpnla t_,, a $imil., ~uannt« or...," '" .clleo:llin!l """'on m<'llw• •o.._.,...,, not 'J'Jf>·'ia~d« unlcu; l,lc QK~ pii'WIIfi!(Qt aar- 10 it. 11 O.o:boc- diU fi,;J! -.~. llrw: - lltd Oln.-dt dn~ »'''u~nf Et!JIIU Uloriiot I« thlldrcn ,..,. p.ltC.U -c'-t~O!Ne&ltd. f• Entli\btn)'whorc in Cum '"liVId b1J irnp.l:llfdw 1h8 ~· lrlut's ....,. mod a.w&:)t lw ("'.,;hoot t.Hnh.

• (IJ!Ot

"The (e:<t '"'"" 1ho C.l!ildl ~;,one- b tklt I! .,.,. ~ dtultnnluJ 10 Jllltib .,1'<)w. mctlou 111111" b f!l\&llsll ""t .. ~o: p-.rut~t in .,o4 rtilh """ {,. lhhl)iril of .:Oollptn~dOII h\ile U.C thdr ehildocn 1o F'tatd! JO:hi;ooi/J or frci>Cit immcn~ rot~Noet.."" J&id P\lltcffoom.

wTIIoCuo~ (la~~M (Oil Id tu~ adetrion"'u.l tlfo:• 011 '"'* pt~pU'" <"-',._~to lac« W«J ~ir O"NII<:hlldl\'1110 e:.3!i>b lo!b)l!oll."'

'rboouilands or chikf~n. Mr. Speaker. arc appatently caught in 1hls si10acton.. There is no protection for them in the oons-ti tutioo. and eerlil ioty there is oo provisioo Cor the juris­diclion ()(the courts.

I $.houkf lite to quote Jat1 M:tcDon:,kl <ltl tbt::.$ame inuc. He $:l)'S:

AIIJI cl ~t mat bt - dl'rinf ....,11:1 lllt<':outilllli;m lll:tu.Jiy uy~o in !We, (a!f100J1 "'C'onld.l ctnse-elw:y~ btc. llciirins.o-dl "'- ,, ,

'lC:..Umt ~ C.1""·" • loo hnc ~...- 11ft ~ry «hooi :Mlru«k. la q.,»d. in Enslisl! Of f"IWO;'.b and 1\'Mc in cllc. pto'~ wbert lk ~Afili: k wtid1 tk)· ~Cll¥td d1U inmucd011 61. doo IU@,.. c/ e~ E~h ., Frpoe\ hgubdc nelnoril) cl !he pf'Q'O"iflliX. ~ ... 1hc riP• 10 lln• .. (h(ir ehildr011 ""~ prim.ory urd ---·)' 411:hool ill1!ruclfon in !hat l.uaa~qo: ia tll11 ptoot.oe:· •. .

I\ m~IIJ tl» t lfyou ,.._ aluc.l«tln Csuolodl in Fknch Or &o11li•lo, )'l)u lun llle tlghl tOo klod )'\1'U kick tO ldio)(ol in tMI l,onl""lll.. In IQ«~. t he QJpaQ d •urc will $1pj>ly ..,;n!)' ia QqbK. (IY(t ridiac Artk1e.1J delle C htntt cl1llt f'«MC:h ~"lt~. 8ill 101 • ..,.ilkh llm!tJ a«tU 1>:1 I!~ $doOOI' 10 '"t dlild .. .,.(' (a~bet Of fl'l(!llhtr ~td " " (0( ha ............... y instno<tion . e " ' '" " in Qutkt:.··

In '"" tC::~I of tN c:uonUJ the: Conada ctluiiC: .. 111 also t pply. boot t be mAte &npo.,uc (.-i~~<rion (« mh101My ~llfu'ft oj"'c;elbo ~~ i< 11 t impfe """"lilon <:!1 uflnollln(lllii.F itllllltfl >lndUill llftdctiii(O)ol.~

Thai i$ Scc;lion 2)(1), Mr. Sped:«. I •·ouJd liJce to quote lt for tbc rcwrd at lbf:s time. h rea<b;

l J. ( I) Citi(Otl~SofC.IUd l

(I) • !:o<M fim IUC~~Ufo ~td u d itll! vf!Cioo1ilrod i$.1ha1 d tile F.nsiW. tw ~h l!flldc,clc ....,lry pop.t>elkln ~ 1&.: ,...,.ioo« in .. \ii:h lk y ....,.., w (I> I wWIIIoe rctcinof chtir ptl""t)' .~~:bwl iltlo(,..;~icn i11Cuwd.:l ilt &clish« f"t~ ... .,d ~ in • pr.wiou W.kol'llthl\ llln&MIIIIC-hi "lllo:.h they rc«:"'ol chal ins1111rtion is IJioe lull"Afili: d lf\c E:oglia i>t F'r.,.~h lif~PiiliO:. noi-ily p:tl'l'loltkll'l Ill the- p \l>inc., Mw the •ilk eo h• .. ~ 4hdt ebi!dn.-. ~ p imUJ" • ncl ~d•rr tdlool ..,._"*tiollil tb;n l.allllUaat ;. tll~t ~

Mr. Ma<:Dooald's column ~~oocnt oo to resd: n..t 15 S~ion lJ(I)(a_) OJf •lie (tclfral ...,.,vliln. otbfrwi$e. ~ .. u lllf

""mo:oiJn;.o """'re du!lll.'" 'no (olt fii!U!I)' do:i&cll!'> 111 -~~· t•~> mllcluoJJ (or ,,...,6i((c-rcoot "''"'-'"J.

FiHI. lbe)t .:motel o~ lrJi)" o\oo!_y the C:lfll.da ,:~._ ia \!Uqr pr.wiii(IOI$, tinw tlo.ro vue nO f"'ncft tdlooi!J i11 """"' of ••- at !J>c. •* .. ~~u 01~ny ftllll('l,lphonc-~tc>lills •ttesoi~~J 10 .e~»ot

n~ C(NUtitldion TbfNf- if il -"' &!,11 be okmo-tntWd l.kt l!lc poi•P~!$ kod thcmtcl~

.tU«!d«l pn.ry t<l<.d in fN;no,:h. t!Ky -"-~ ha~ dllim tho ti&lct kr lMir ~hi~ A h4 toehnlcal )lisctl: (f!JO, no C.11...._. d.UUC• in !U"'" o( C111ad1. T\c q~ko .... lie dMide -lol ell) doe t n.::L

&u 1!:01 in C)sMbrK, All f~ fl'l(!llhft IO!lPf du.w in !ll. pn;ooi- • OIM -n 11111 ntuer~h~ C.ni<!Mns ot l!~;lkNp:••a .,isln ,.wlcll4~ •ooc. eo fl11~ ~!)ob. ' " crrott. t bi' - •• New O..WioM (mM c-,,.eo,,_. -n•ri(lf. lika lnailo, hkisl•• • nd Zimba\10-.. Polilio:..l tl)'lll<milc.

No C tm dia_n shQuld be denied equality ()f C'l(lpOrtunl ty bc«usc be is unilin:JUal in either or the official lana.uait:$. If tbett is to be equ3Jit)'. there must be uue ·equality, Mt. Spcak~r. W~ c;pnll(l( h.we !MiinguaJism and Bill 101 tide by side in this oountry. There is no room for re.slri.;tive covenants which d!$Crltnl.nate a..gain.u SltgcneiiU of our populatiot'l.

To n~. a Oaarlcr of Ri.ghu at1d Frcedoms is wiodow-dtesv ins. his &Omtthing (or the Prime Mi.n.iJ~tc.r to nm up on .a nu.& pole u a reciremcnt legacy. 1 am suspidous of a.ny <:batter • e.sp;:ciall)· of oac. propo6cd by tbe Prime Minb.ter, this man who Ullm.plc:d on the bu.s:ic riahts <>I w m;,ny Canadian~ during lbe October crisis. a time of an alkged apprehended insurrec­tion. Mr. Speaker, does tbl~ not rirtg a bell?

On too Nny oocasioos in this oountry the libcrt.i" of iltdlvlduals u d groups have. beCII cast aside for the alleged common soocf. Tbe trc;Hmcnt or the J:a;1nnese during Wo.rld War U is a ~r we "''iJI sbamcfuiJy c:arr)' forever. The treat• n)tnt of Jd10'13b's Witnesses in Quebec is a blight on religious freedom and libt:rt)'. The War Ma~un:.S Act was an insult to libett)' and an affront to j~ioc, All th.i5 -..•;a$ ~c by<~ m.n who I)C)W brines in 3 Cllarttr of Rig.hiS a.ad Frcedoms. Can be be trusted! ll:ss he repented? Tha s-pirit or John Ditltnba.ku <:"ties out, '"This is a ire<~ler c.:om-euion cban the (me on the road to Jhmasws'".

Tbe.-c is no ~fcn:nce in tbe prQP(l$ed Charter or R~ghu and Frccdoms to tbc rigbt to own propcrty. 1 rc:cQ811iu.. Mr. Speaker, th:u thill is utldet ptO\•Inci:al jurlsdi<:tiofl and that •-e are rAirly sare in the PIV'f:ince of Albcrl.a. In (:,.c:t, I k:naw •-e arc ufe there. But what about tbc Provinoe or Sask:.atc:bcwan • that $0clalkt provinoe W'he,., tbe g<We:rnel'lent is caking 0\<er oonttol ol roorc 8J\d more bnd, laJMJ vpc~n whtd. rood is produced? h does not bother me so m~b that l-Ovcmmeats are seuin& up Crown corpor2tion.i. but h reall)' botbm me when the &late takes O'l<er CIOfltrul Qf ~be Jand up<m whicb we produee Oltt food.

The Cbartcr of RighiS nnd freedum.'t I~ intetlded lO prott:a poopk from government. How c:an people be proteCted? HQw can people be a.ssutcd aM guaranteed their rights jf tbcre are no provhion.1 (Or ovenidJng: l~lation? Further to lbat, Ood was reluctantly paid tbc minimum WiSe by the· Prime Miniwer in the cbaner.

t'urtllcr to tlual, Mr. Spc;llker. •·hilt a re the ris,hts ot 1he unborn? I happen to bcliC\o-e that life begins lilt the I:I)C)ment of conecpcion.. Unbom bclbies mUM be reoogniz.cd as membcn or the huml•n family. f.low many members of goverr~metlt eouJd guarantee they woufd be here today if alxntton on <kroar:MI had been in effect lo ~nada in lbe. last 10 )"eat!l"'! After SS )"Ca/5 of l low progrC$$ on t he Co~i1ution in Canacb. why must we lllip up in a flurry of uodue haste-? Wby do we n<.M thin\ abuut the

.. USIZ COMMONS DEBATES N~'embtr 30, 19111

The QmJ:titutiQif

rcspomjbilit)' that hutn:1nity h~. which i;,s w be pre.,.rcd hl 2coept our mp.>nsibility for the defenceless unborn cllild? This i$ one of t.hc basic human rig,htJ and it Is omined from t11t'

chatter. l know chat the Pdmt Mini$ter h:111 gh·cn hii! a(firm;atic.m: }le

hiiJ made a 1111J.tcment oo that. 1t is a ''trbal -statemcnt. J ooce bear<l a politic ian say that tbe Sl.atell'let~t was not worth tl;e paper it •·as w.·ritten (M'I . Ttmt is hqw I fet:l ubout lhe Prime Minilltu's starcme..nt, lo.sk. why t~ great hurry?

I n:commat.d to bolt. members that tbe}' re4d .some of the statetneJilS "''hi<:lt were made by membcr.S from both side$ o( 1M House-during t he debate on the Didcnbd:cr BiU or R(Jhts in 1960. Ce~in or <IGr rights- indeed all or oor moot irn}')Orunt

rigbts-.,.·ere not given to ~ by l(n'C!mmeot. Government cuni'IOI gi,·c anythin& to us unti:l it hu taken something awa)'. Many or these rigll ts were hard fooght for a.nd bard wort. They are inalienabJe: rlghu. TheSe rig:bu ~~ c)cep rootl> io hisiOfy, In cuttom 01nd usa&e, io oonv('.ntion and in conmwn law. i bey were ours originslly. Tbtn, of ooum. e•·ery time g.,wernmcnt does somdhing for you .• youl~e a p..nt of your ~ry being.

We art fortttu~ate w live in a parUamentat)' doeln()I;Tacy • ·here t he indf.,.idooJ is supreme. We a.re fottunate becawe of the ric;h tccaey· of laws a11d stau.uts we have :~dopted rrom the motl•cr rountri.u of Orc:tl 8ri1..1in and Frt~noc.

On the road to oatloohood. • ·e have expertcncod growing pains. We ba\'C 1t1:tde 1n~$tat.:s. But ""'ben .,. . .,men nnd men Q( soodwiJJ re:t~ together,. commoo sense. loJiC. oompasslon nnd unden;tand ing prevaiL

No ooo in tile U<1u~ will oppose the move to pauiate the 8riti$h NQf'th America Ace and btin~ it home to Canada. No one will oppose: tlte reality of bdng able 11) .amend our own la'I'S in Canada without rdcreru.:e to any outside legisl.acure Of P<~~rl iument.

CanadiaN evtrywho!ctC • ·ill decry the inonfin<tte rush to tough justke t'or mllOY CanudiallS. Many will questioo t he oecd to blindly adopt a te&O.Iution wbicb was butjly agreed to.

If tbete Is n«d for a Chull:r .,r Ri,8.h ts n d Fn:edonu, 1 """"I to 11« it· made in C.1nada. I do 001 •'llnt to see a puc:hwork, ill«lmpletc and unacceptable ch.aner t hrown to­getbcr in Ca.tUda :~nd Wlll:lrined i11 Bri l;~:in.

Il l$ ti.mc for· 50ber, sec:ood t hought. h is time for a coofi11g of( pcfiod. lt ig time. for tl•e SO'~nnnent 11) he!!r ttle: view$ or ~ • •bo will be- :e.ffected. h is lime fOJ the eo"'etnmeot to heed the c:ric.s Qf tbose Canadiam wbo will suffer ~use.

g01o>emment mo-ved to ecl$l•rin4 their right;. I ( we do t hiS, Mr. Spe.<~i:et, ther-e i ~ no ~~~on fOf unravelling the aooord tbat bas been urrivc:d at by the ptO\'i.noes. Tbcy have done. a good job and I give then) c:mlh for th.aL We c::cn p.url<tte 1b.e ConPitu.• tioo, )U: we c.an po•lriutc- tbe Com.~ itution • •i th the amending form1.11~. yes. h is not my intcntio~t to undo the acC<lfd in any ••ay. sbapc or form by an)'thing th;tt I hnve .<S<tid, b1.1 t T do tbinl( the lime h~s uril~ when we as members of this House of CommoM must take a $0001\d look and approach this problem with commoo SlCit$1t.

• (11101

Som~ lilon. Mwt!M>I'l: Hear, hear!

Mr. ()a,·id Snlitll (l,artia•et~tary 5«-retuy to Presllfnci of tlltc Prh1 CoondO: Mr. Speaker. like most member$ of the Houst 'o~> ho hav~ had an oppottunity to spc3k irt tb" dcbatt-. I Cl.>nsidcr it a great hpnour to ~ l)OC). ihill t~ a hilltoric dei»te: and undoubtedly is tbc mo.« .significant dcbille oo tbe most llig;nifteant tl'lauer the H<1ust has t V'tl' dealt y.•ith.

Some of 1h< famws debate$ oonoernod lbe building of the C PR undtr Sir John A. Maodooald, the navy bill u.ndcr Sordeo, wnscrirckm. pipeline. tlte nss debate-all of t hde have gone down in Canadian histOf)' .as pari of QUr berita.sc :~:nd (ltlr tr~dition. But this ooostltutiooal debate is tbe greatest of tbem ~ll. ;~nd that is • ·hy it i~; a ple:uhm: w ""vc tflc oppottuni ty to parti<:p.ate in it.

I h2.Ve nc,c bad .a spcecl1 rtady to give :~t a . • noment'll notroe, Mr. Speaker, botiiU$1: V.'C '>''CrC- in • peri()d (l( nu): until reccn.tly. Eaclicr today whe-n I had to decide 'a'bat I would S3)'' •·ben I $poke loday, I lOOu&}lt I mi~ht talk illx~t~1 ~nle of my feelings and about hQ'o\' I ~gard "''berc .,.,'<:are at this point in the dtbllle·.

My auju•dc i$ n va)' PQ~Si live ooe. I have a fedin~ ..,f pride because I thjnk the House is going to do a -.."Cry good thing in t W(I tbys' lime .. I think it it ims!Orl:lnt Llaat wt recap for a moment the clement.s of ""'hnt we ;are aOOul tu dq in p:uriatins tbc Const.ltutioo.

Until t he bcainnin8 ()( t_hi.~ year mnny Cani!d i:ul! did not know tbat the Constitution of Canada d kt DOl rc!ide io Canada but "'OS still an ace of the British Parliament. CatUidi­;ans OQW !(no""' llwt (or a ''arkty Q( rca..,oeu 'A't ba~·e not btto able to bring that Constitution home for I t 4 yett~. As the rc:ruh ol this debate, nta..ny Canadiat'IS are now :t•·a.re tbat -..-e stoned mal(ing 11 COT!t~e~s crtorl tu bci.ng the Cont.titution ho1ne in 1927 under Madoorie King. In J9JI, tbe Slatote of We~tcniMter y.•a:~ Pf1S$Cd and tbe ()IIM:t do.:niJdons, as they "''tre th«l called. cut the umbilic;~l c:Qrd, b11t (or t~eYcral n:<a500l> Cat1ada was noc able to do tbat.

I was surpri~d to bear the bon. member f()l' Red t.>oer (Mr. Tower.s) ~ay thac be fth we must .makt- haste slowly. If an)' ""tion h;~~ c~r m.'ld<: hMie slowly on t he $ubject ol the Constitution. it is Canada. Tbe qoestion ~f patriating (lie C(lnllti tution h n•)l in CUntention. Jun a oouJ)k of months ago people wue s:•_yina ... 1~-n: it; it has been fine (or yea~ and tii!Cre is no nocd to "''()(ry about patriating it.' ~ I think il i$ clear th.:tt tl•~:· .:o~U<:IUUll in the oountr)' uo-· suppc>ns pauiadng the Comtitucjon.

We hU\'C o very go<.ld ~Jmendi_ng (urmulil • ·hicb I t h_ink i:~ tC:UOilabk and fail. Mr. Speaker. 111 all honest)'. it is not ;all that J pcrs<lflally 1!2d hop."<! for. I Ukcd the ~·isioo fat s rcfe.toodum when tbere S«mtd to be· no o the-r v.·ay to g.tt agJCCnlC'flt. I ba\'C OC''« been a fraid of aoi:nt 10 tbe people, pom kulurly with Lite built·in safe-guards that were in tbe refcrcndl.lm procodure wbic:h •vultl h11ve required :t majority of tbe people in t'ach of tbc four tcgions to ''OIC in suppcwt of a cQ~titurionl\l arm:ndmt!nt. We. oompr<>fl'lised on that bt:cause

.. NO\~mber 30. 1981 COMMONS DEBA TfS 13513

tbe~e was a tC31 des-ire to l'dCII an a..g.reemetlt witl1 the pr<lvincc.,. Tbtu asreement ••<~$ re;•choed, A..nd there '~''oil$ 1tn aooord.

I 11d1nit l 11m S(lfnc:..-·lwlt lll.lrpri3ed nol JU$1 by th~ auiu •<k: Qf tiH: OOrt. IJicmber (or Red Doer but by many mcmbeC$ of dte offidal opposition who, for monthll wlu!a tbc go\'etnme.nt was (lftpa~ to go nl:w:;•d without the oont;enl und avecmcnl of moot of the proYinus, kept urgin.a the gO\·ern.ment to try to rdeh an acoonl :n all <:a~ti. Now 1~1 the tu:eord hM bttn ~cllocd. they arc prcpan:d to brea.k it for a v<Hiety or amend· lllCI\IS .,_.ltich tbc)' ha Ye put for.,.-ard.

The NOr 'I''C/'e at lc;lt!:l prepared IO 80 ahc.d. rcs:•rdlc$$ C)f whether a majority ol the pr<Y>'inces agreed. I dUnk it js 110"''

eonsis.tent with lh3t po!'hion for them t () mqn: a.m.cndment* to tbc :~cx:ord , b11t I rllld it tliffieuJ' 10 understand tbe position or tbe oll«:ial oppo.sjtion i.rt th.is regard. Not>~o'ithS13nd ing my rcm.:~tk.'l ;tbout t.hc ap~iliOO and their

attilude to tht: A<:tord, I think it iSo fair 10 .say thal when the deb3te oo the Coru-ti tution began tbe~ '<''$$ ~ (~it bit cl <u:rimon)' wltcn l he Mlbjoct of tbe amendi11g formull.J Cllme g:p, I 00 DOl think that acrimon)' e.tists now, There roay be &Ome people who disagret but ..,'C do Mt ha,<e:-thc dlsun.sion we OI)Ce t;tpc:ricnci:d in t.he tlouse.

We oow ha~·e a chaneJ. Mr. Speaket. and I think it is a g()O(f charte-r. I h:'111e ~!wAy~ OOt:n c.:munilli:d to tlte oonocpt of a charter .ahhoog.h I realilc: lhil.l not C\'tryonc: in the Hwse b.n$ been. Earlk:r tod:t.)' I rtl!d some of the spe:ed u:s hoa. members apposite made wbw the item l'inlt C'.sme up fm dt'bate. "-b ay member$, pnrHeu.liu ly in t he Conservative P.any. wete opposed to tM basic tOr)(ept of a chatter before there "-'1S even any dd)l:lt~: On what i_t migbt C()nt~in .

We know the position of former Premier Lyon- and. qui te fr:t.nkly, I thjnk it bu.rt hin1 in lh.:. teotnt prw;incial tli:ctiOil ellhwgh t h01t would be <Jjfficullto meQS~Irl:. A lot ~f pc:qple do DOt fuJiy understand tbe ramifie.ttiotls o( the cbatlet or t he r.amific:Ui<lni: ()(bringing tbe CoMJitution b:1Ck h(lm.::-.

When it comes to 11 que~ti<ln of "'"'nting d1e probktn $0l'led or 001 wanting it wl~. l chink most pc:c.~ple w;1nt it &Oh-ed. When it ootllCS to the que:titioo of befping or hiOOerin.g.. I think mllt'lt p.::ople wnnt to lli:t' t he jlrcmii:fS of thill oountry helping. To the e.xtc::nt tbnt former Premier Lyon "''<I$ a hindrance. I tbint the people of MMitoba spoke 3nd clea.rl)' indiC3tod tbeir ::~Crttimcnti on tfmt. Petson;~lly. I h;tve ne,·er been in doubt about t11t: cbarter. I

have U> admit th.11 I ha~ been Jttatly i nnuc::~ed by the experience of chairing the Spocial Co111minec M the Disabled 111!d tJ1e H3nd ie:appod whkfl w.:::nl llt ral;!l t he counlty :and listened to bundrotls of handicapped and disabled peopl-e speal: I! bout tbt"ir fcc-lin&i and 'ol.'b)' they wanted a charter. Many of thi:tn ~id; "D<m't li:3ve us at the: mc:rcy or tl.c: provin1:ct. We wan• tb" cbarter and we:: want it iD force risht ocross the country." Wdi, Mt. Speaker, it i ~ in f«ce. right across tbe C(Mtntry. I kn<lw that $1>me dW!.bkd pcuple <lbj i:Cti:d to the ~ride c::la!J$C but we $ttO'i'e for the lxst del.JJ with Chc ptcwint1.-s, and I thin.l: that l'l!ther tba.n tbe disabled people of

•

TA~ CtM~titutiQif

tJtlt owntt)' bdrtg at the me-rcy of lbc. provirKcs oow. the pl'(lvi~e~ are nl the nacrcy c.! tJae dsattet. Tbc ptoviDCti cannoc pass thac override provi.s.ion in 11 pie:« of gener1.l k:,{!,is.la 1ioo every few yeal'i. They mus-t put it io c<>v:ry act thllt tbe)' want it to 11-pply to and they hl.Jve lO rc•t'11aet il ~·ety fi~ )'eats or dse it automatically laPfCS.

The political rcalily of a formula $\lch t~s t hllt i$ t hal it wi:ll rarely. if ever. be usM. And I do Mt tlti.nl: it i:s likely to be l.lscd v.•ith respoct 10 the d i.sabled and h11ndic;;1pped pc!(iple of tbd country.

At the outset of the-debate on the Constitution I know tbal piX)pk did Ql)l $e~ t he need ror a e-harti:r. I Lhink that mood bas ~banged. Tbe remarb of tbe bon. member foe Red l)eer ;~re noc typiC!l of the fetl.ings of mos1 Cana-dians. in my view, althou,Jh cbere are !~till $Ume wh<.t fed tbat y,•;1y.

About 11 week. o.gq I !lp.>kc to u group of IIIWyi:rS 3.1 a luncbeoo in Toronto. Aficrward$ there wtu a qu~til.m q.od anl;wer period and ooe nuu1 asked If I ooold tell him how his life wo11ld be any differenl after the ch01rta is in place. I h:~:d to 11d1t'lit that his life ptobably 'A'ou.ld not be any djffcrent. I also 1ricd tu point mu to llim that hi:. w:u white. he "''as ab~ bodied!, he "''M An&lo-Sn.xon. be.,., ... ~ 1 l:lwyer, he bad a iJ(I<.td ii'ICOI!'Ic---

Mr. SlllHit: A$ the bc.H'I. member fllr York South (Mrs. Appollotli) hss poimed out. he "''tiS a man.

I tl1i nl: it is fair to ssy tbtll if most of us look at t_be many advJini~Jt$ we all have, that tJ1e OO.d.t on any of 1n having to fling OU1$elvcs at the COUJt$ .and pJead f(lr the. in tcrte~!lion ~·hlch tll~ Ch~rtcr would ptO'Io'ide f« us are pcrJtaps 110t tbal higb. H()We~·er, there ill'e m;my peOJ)Ii: in thl:l country who do bOt fal l imo tbc '*tegorics to wbich I bovej~JI(I referred. When J point~ tbli out to tbe g.cntlcnun at che luncheon, he said. ··vou lil te rigtn. I b11d not n:;1ll)' ttwugbt obout it ftom tbtlt perspc.:tl ... ·e before". He had to ad:mjl tll\U he bnd really on.ly been ll!inkinS ()I hial'lstlf. I think it is ,·cry important f« all of us to analyu 0111 thoughts IHM.I em(Miun3 on th.is subject. We should not only tbinl: about bow it will affect us pc:r$0nodly. We -111lc1utd think also :tboUI h<W>' it will affect many Jl'C<l"plC who do fall into dl<:SC diSc"'dv~~~~~ged ;;ruu~&

J was disappointed when I bc:.ard t he h<lt~ . memb« fot Red Oter (Mr. Towers) 53)' t hat he could nol supPQrl the eharte.r. He said th;at 1\.t wu auto1natkaiJ)' suspiciollS of anything which bnd been prQPQl'led by the Prime Minim ·r. Quite (tafl l:· 1)•. I arn teally shocl:cd by lbat auitvde. h W()Cik! seem tO me th.d C\'et)'Olse in the House ou,{!,ht to be .wtT'tc.:iend)' mat11re to be able to anaJy.sc a picc:c: ()/ kgi:datian, a rcsolutloo. or .,batel-'ct is before H1e House, and judje il Qn its merits nnd not on wbu:se nuue is auachod to it .

IJSI" COMMO}'o.'S DEBATES

TM Coturlr,.tlolr S.• t IMNI. Mtdltn: Hear. bear! 1\tr, S•llh: I think, ttM.luab. tbal ,,,.c hllove oonu~ 11 Ions 111'11)'

in the: llouK liinoc last ran. I remember thut Mter the first ttllnbtet'A OOrl(trence in Stptl:tl\btr ol 1980, thl!rl: wu a btc=.a~down, The ten premiefl, a fl cr they h1ld c:Mc:n bfcnl:fas:l. went 10'" tlte Prime Mini~1er. They h3d 11 dtmandli 'fl'hicb, quite rrankl)', had tbe Prime. Minlstu llj.ICI!d 1(1 llll!'ltl an, WUIIId hi!VC Cm:&.$0:UI<Jtcd tbe abiljty or t he fcdetlll JO"CfflmCO~ to run cllls c:oon.tt)'. 1t would have been •~rtu.aJiy trtllWMU~ to lla•c •~~o.'C'pt.cd t!w:lsc d.:m:allC!::t. Tile Ptlmc Mlnn.&cr •:u prc• ptred to IICICCPI a few bot DOl 10 Ji"e aqy tk l«t ucl all tk .. ,..,.._, •ere irl: ll.

I( • -c t.ry to aulyl.c: wbt bJwmrd t.bn-c. o1od • hy IIUI~ btol:e don to the CltCOl dw the)· did. •e •ill fi.cl. I t.bW:. that tha-c -~re wrdy iomc pason.aNty ell•~ "hkh ~Y biVe OMitribu·ecd Put I think tblt the Pnmc MiniAc.t ru.Uy put Mli lin,er oo it ••ben he spoke in the Hou~ eatlkr this )'tilt. lie reftrrtd to t.bt. i.lk:idc:nt whtth b11~cd in 1966. F6r the n~· time, the lbCft Ptcmi«:r John8l0n (1/ QIX:bcc, in raponodlnJ to a move by Ptbilt Minister Pcanon 10 (ldttiatc the: Cot• ~tihnic>n .. ~kl. -vc:3. you ~.;An h~vc Quebc("J u,&r<e• ment, but ••c: have a pt"ioe tag'•, Whal happencod then l'aS thu llllt.n)' pre•nkrs sort or (dJ tnto tltot rut ol•a) In&: "Yu, we wiiJ JO o~ton• wi•h it, hut t hi$ is our price'·. h.,.,., 11 that p(lint that the Prime: Minister stancd b;~.m.mCiinJ ll'lrouth tlle ~ Wl w t,.li • patty :uw;l as a ~I'll. ~~ot~tc IIIUit Pf('j!llred 14 uadl otr ripu (Qt rl$1:1 and~~ lie. il:cJ!I lummcnn1 a'tQy at OUt pom ud. tbul: ~ it pt tii,..P I thld tile: proPc: olthd CCUatry ra.ll)' ay« ••I• llut poi•t, Wlut 11 rco~lly boiScd dotm &o 'n$ benkip ,..,. cktdll'ltNdon.

I can rnneMbu tll3-t dari~ tbe uriy Ma,a of 1h11 dcbll•~ f woulcl (rcquauJy hear. w~k: I "U tra--dbllJ, •rOtind tbe co.~nll)'• the word "'obsti~on ... Sc.!Mt people leh it ""'"- an obtaliilon, W~t are •be cbaracteri5tic:s q/ le.-der;:hip? I think it ig f1ir to uy dtae had John A. M1ed0"11ld walled ro, univi."fQiag~mcnt to build the CPK, h would Cl:rtlllnly n~wr have bten built, 11 '>'Wid ba\·e nC\·er ""'" eo VnnC)()IU\'C:f and Con4dll would not be in the: sbape it b 111 toda)'. Sonletimcs tbetc c:o•n~ o 11ituatim1 ••here JO•,•«~t•~ ri\IUI tlrcnk lhi: IC'lfl ,..m. mu111 &OOw det(ortni.n..llioo. and m~.».l ju~• tAke the bwll by tbc *"'' and aay, .. We 'ilill do the riclu thin& and • ·c: 'Will prca• on". Tlut i.i Vi3:ct.ly "'h:lt has happen-a. In "'' •tew• poun. tlw« 11 tbe fiu.l analysis of tbe u .. «dl of kltd«ship .and wllo;at lt & all2boc!L

I• Uw yon «O coo.e. I ao.dn- 111b;t1 0111 ftC!Oiket10n •d!l br •ht8 we t•uflk cl tl»c oam~it11ti!Oft&l cld•k q/1910 aftd 1931! My (lflit tc<'CikctiOII..;O be oltbe aQ:•I'II.'C YO!cd tO Kt •P IlK OI.)(MIIttoc. 1'hnc \llrti 2 fldt riot hue 011 ahe t1oor ar abt Howc.. Mr Speaker wu brin:s defied by tome holl munben ,., ~ in my opiftion. were acting quite dt,cnocMiy Sorn.t or lhc.tn wcrt llfllnding '*P :t.nd shakin8 tbclr (ul.t. 111 Mr, Spesker.

Mr. 1'11ykw: lt wu <:l6!>ure. Mr. Smith: 1t wall on unrortunlllc thing, M,v fiiliiCt, who ha11

lived In Caliromio $inoc 194?, j~.».t happcnli W bt: here, i11is .,. .. j che on.ly lime sh~ bad e~er sat in the llou~.; ol Common.s. 11 •·:.~ that d~ty.

Mr. Babt' (NC':,_ei...C.tlf'f011): I met her thal n.i&ht.

Mr. Smitlt: Tbut lt rt&ht-. l'hc hon. m~bet r01 Ncpean· C~dttoo (Mr. Baker) did mcet her. He W\U vecy charmed by ~r bc<:AuK 3l1e Ita kwtly lad)'. ond she was quite dlarmW by hirn, In an)· «:vwt. tl'le wu ~I! tins l.lfl there in t.he gallcty. Sbc sat tlaeJc: in co•nplcte di-bdid until about '2·)0 in 1h«: mQfnin.a wbe-n tbc wbolc t hil'll endod.

t lowcvcr, ic kl quhc (Jit eq »Y that that mood aftd at~ pbcte has. evaporat«< h ;, 10ftC. I thi.ltk tlul whcr.~ the ¥\'Me 1t L:Jk<a oa W~y •laht. thuc .m oot be aay r«rilni•· cion. tltere wilt not be 11111tcrMa or .aimcny. 11w ..aod r.u disappeattd. aDd I thi11t tllat (aa • J;ood ca'&1C (or all ol at so .,....,. ......

S«:ond., • 'hta I lhin~ or •hat I .;n look btd: on. I "'UI pro0ab1)• reQitl my (tf'jCI I'Cictlon to that !light. I woMcrW \Jihctbc:r •oe •'OUJd e~r bt able 10 belli the divisfve11es. and "'·hcthtr tlk.-e Wli t ny Haht st lhe end of the lunnel. I rememb« • $-J!OI'I!h o,hld• .,..,11 si,·tn by Se.nalot Oa\•id Cron. Settalor Croll tttlkod 1bou1 being on •~c rigbt ii<U of hi!otOty, :.nd h<1•, 111 the Lime ltitiOC')' was taking plaoc, it wu n(ll 8.1\l"ff)'$ .;Jw.r lO CYU)'l>lle 'll.'hi<:h, in fu CI, 'dS tbe. t ig.ht t id«: o( blstory. H~ rtntlnded IU or the debate on citi:.cen~hip In tbk cou.ntry whkia took plac:~ In t~ 194&. or COiii F.SC:, Sen!lll)r CroU h.u bce:n 10 pu\W.c lire~""'" the t920s. That~k coodnall. bot is still acti"WC i.n publte Urc. How~r. he remicndcd us of the cit~p dc:balc. No OM IQs • mote: wupy btl:k&tou:nd tl»n 1 do. and I Ul 11•itc proucl ol it. UIQ'II'C'\"«. I ;am aho PfO"d &o be :a Canadiaa. l RlllCII'ba tlw at title ti'* when we ~ et. deWIC OA attatti.blft pciOfllc •«e-sa)io& Wt it wu • lrc:uo­IIOUS alld tenibte tlljftJ tO Jf"C \tP !xlq British s:_,bjccU (Of Carudia.n pusporu ucl Cat11.diaft ejlize:ns.hip.. ~~ the tunc~. there ..-~, • rally bot deb.Aw.. flue " 'bttl Me loob bad: on il no ..... il is inoooceivable 10 think 1~1 o~nyonc .. vu.ld have been ap.iotl Canadia11 cititcnship, Ho...-C\'C:r, tbe)' were at the time.

There ..,..., 11. timii/IJ 3ilut•li<lfl during the Rag debate. I wall fort un:ue C110ugb to be working bete a.s a n q.s;sl$-t:ml a 1 dte ti,ml(.. 1 .nu nnd ll~1cn~l 11> •n<llll of tbe flag debo.te from the gaJLeriCII. Some or the YCry tlivillivc itatane.nlS tna<k at the tfnue .night have ct~ukd I)II!C to thtn.k that pcrl!aps '>'1: co.kl rw;lllCr heal $OOX ol the d1vM~ in t!w: House. However, there wu :1. right side ot biJCOtJ 11 d1c time. Surdy, on~ ClA1IOC be azalnst tbc- Catt.adt.tA fta&.

I bt:liC't'e lNI •bra .-c klot bad: I• yatS to oome.. there • il1 be- :t 6cbt sick ol .iMOI) on t.it one. I JOSI ~bet .... CQfnct Scmtor Ctoll • -u. He u.id ..... )'Cars eoClOIJIC-. ,_ ..;u klok bd a.n4 find 11 ii\IC:OI)C:C:rvable tbu aayooe ClOUW ...,., b«n ~~J;ai.Mt brillll""llhc Con•:tiHttioo home.. .. He •·u more or 11: propbct lhlln li)Mf people nlll)' have lbotl£~1, ~UIIC I think that ITI05l peoj)le In 1hls L'QUnlry !lfe al re3:d)' tn thiS mood.

Tbe final rccoUn"11on 10 111•hldt I •night refer rel;•l t:!l tu th" (:u:t. tbill the di~ublcd life Included in Sc.:t.iort 15. When d1e fim draf\ c:ut1e ovl. lhO)' were 001 included. I r~tme•nbcr tny fim reaction eo th01t. I do nUl thiu.k tbt: fact th<~.t tbc:y "'~"' u dude:d wa.t indienthoc o( nnyone btinA mean spirited or

Nc.wcmlxr 30, 1981 C0~1MONS DlliiATeS IJSIS

indiN'crenl. People ~~o·ue $imply not aware of the need for dteir inclusion.

Mr. Baker- (Ntptu-C.rkroo): I think )'OU ore right.

Mr. Sm.itl: I rtmembcr spcmkiog (m it in c:,~~;~a.s time ~ner iime, to lbc poinl ••here I almost fch that I was bccomillg a pest. One would see. tbc odd peNon rolliJt8 lalt t)'ti back: a.t i f to $3f. "Here. goes Smitb 11pio on t.he dis<tblcd"', Howe"'Cf, I remember tll.e fecliQJ I bad wbcn the Minister of Justice stood up in caucus atld. annomt«d th:u the dill:tbet:d ••Quid ~ ind~;~ded. ff 1 ne\·cr do aeylhjn& ill public life again, that will h.a\"C been worth it.

Mr. Baker (Nepeall.(;.rkroe}: I agroe.

Solll~t boa. Mt18ltetll: Hear, ht:lr!

Mr. Smitla: There are 50t1lC oth« n1ernotics.. I could talk about spending so•ne time in Great Bril:tin. In M:m::h, I spent three-w~o't'k$ there: totlkjng to nbo\u 40 MWlbet$ of Parliament Rbout the CoMtitution, tbecaucUSC3 and the argume-nts.

Howcvtr, I kt I hut my t i~ne U 11p. I wo11Jd jltSI like to !'a)' that it i.s aJJ e~t history. All of us $Jiould be. proud to ha~-c been pa.rt of this cMpter of n:HIOI)obuildiJ•S. Whe-.n tbi: curtain drops oo Wcdndd:~)' night :1.11d lbc: r~.>Je of lbis HQQse ts finally OlmpJ~e, I nm sure we will all Sland up and give a great chetr to have been part of it.

The Actin~ Spe•'" (Mr. Ethitr): 1t bc:ins six o'cloot. I do I)(.Wo' kave the chair until eight o'eloct p.m..

At 6 p.n•. the House toot n!OC$11.

AFTER RECESS

The HottSe re$umcd at 8 p.m.

Mr. Ro• S te•-..rt (Si•ccK> Stl.lb:): Mr. $pc:~kcr, I Wl)nl tl)

3:1y at t he out$cc tll<11 t I nm in fa''OOI of patria ling tit<: Btitisb North America Ace and an atfl~lldin& !orniUIII .... ·hkh is t.he m~t arocptablt: to all Canadi11n provinc:es nnd <~11 Cn~dinn people. I mia,ht add that bon-e not changed my mind OI)C: iot3 since my conSlitutjon31 speech on the llr.st p~al.

On('i: ag..in. I om ~onct:rncd wilb tbe hurry up auitudc of tbe government opposite.. The Constitutioo is too itnport:lllt. Our rights are too S3C:~ to be rushed :d<lrlg In a •·hirl••ind o( h.1SI).' me~liup and telex~s. h.liity amtndn'l('nt!l'wd House agrtt· ment11. I Slly, stop the merry·go-rouOO and slow do..-•n. What is the hurry?

I do noc want t<> sec Ctlnildilns $addled witb till imperfect Cbaner o( Rights and Frccdoms. I do not want to sec C~tladi~ ans Sllddlod with ntany ol the cl:lu.<l'll which will n<~t $tand the dQe;t: scrutiny (•f Wurkr's ~ sc:cood tOOugbt. Rome was 001 b11i lt in a day. Constitutions arc not N dc ~'ttnig.ht, Ot

late 3t 11ight in kitdtcn c<~nfc.rc:nCIC$ :.1 t.hc Conference Centn:: t1mid bot tle$ u( whisks. Constitutions are not made in hasty.

Tit~ C()tiJiftllrlon badly tbouglu OtJt COI:'ltptomises. 0 1'1 Wednesday .,_.e will be :l:\ked to volt: <m th is- lusty document, u Aeoord o( na-.'J, lln uoiii'Ot'kable maze.

I for OQC: do not •·otnt to $CC 11 Can;~dian Ch~rtct: of Rights at1d Frtedoms in .stofte :1nd enshrined in Great Britain. I want to s~ it nud e in Can::tda by Cu:usdiaru, and I W3111 1t charter as perfect as men and women <:an devise. Out the .ne falls Wod.ncsda)' at thrceo'dock.

Persoully. I want to see out rights c:arc!uU)' considered. oot

lro~ded off for expediency n.nd t:N':Kienty to met:t t()rnt· fictitious tim~able, a timetable to .sah•c: one man's mani~ ego whose d<M.'tltnCtltod desire is rtdisttibuticx• of we-.1lth in this CaMda of our.s.11.nd enshrined bilin.gu;d iltm.

I fear 11$ mue.h thi~ ehill rlcr p~ by the Right Hon. Pti111e Minister (Mr. Trudcau), tbe author of -Fcdcralism and tbc fri:J~ch C.an:sdians•·. the itupJemttuer of !.he dratonjan War Mca.sures Act. tbe t:IQSIIrc. arti\tt, the ~.>rdc:r in OC)Undl buck p:user, the pfOll()(utor ol the Oflicial Scacts Ace. the m:·1nipul.1t<>t ot the. uran;urn. t:lrtd, the rt\S11 from Yl ho.sc cabinet the Hon. Jamcs Ridlard&OJI rc:&ired ""~roi.ns us <&IJ qf the PriJne Mlnb.ttr's tt)l)tiv~ ttgarding the Constitution. I fear D Cbattcr of Rights and freedom~ trom som~e wbo has ig.norc:d rigltu.

We mny be opening up a v~ndOr.l•s box by procee<Ung 'f''ith undue haste and a lack of c.aulion. What 1$ wrona witb ~ ('()()ling off period and the appointing of a c:otl$titucm nsli<:mbl)•'! W~ coufd tbc:n gq :1bout oor bulllncss ""'hUt the Cotlstitution i$ being debated again. We coufd look. 11f'ter tbe eCOIW)fn)'· We. could strike ao all-party oommittcc &tld invite t.bc: ~rnor of t h~ Hank ._,r Can1tcb to ~it in on the hearings. and we cou.ld do something aboot intei'CS4 r~ te).. the mortpse r.l.tc$ ~nd the deplorabk laclc ol housing. What is wroog witb a $econd l.bou.shl given to the resolution by C:'ln.adians rr<~m aU walks of lire? There ar~ too man)' ifs and bu1s in thh; relK)fu• t.iM. 1'herc :~:re too matty loopholes, •nany more than the ones •'bicb I be: Mini~ ter or finMOC (Mr. ~fnd~thttl) is $Up~ly addressing in the budget. Tbuc ate too many escape ciii!SSC$ and 100 m:tny dau)d whk b divide us. Tbcre are 100 mat1y areas ror disll..ltfC'Cm<nt.

Wi.ll the Yukon and the l'lor~bwc.t Territories be fom•et doomed to tetritotial status bc<:a ii:Se of this imperfect rt:110lu· tion? lt «:r1<'inly loola that way.

Will bUr system go the way ol tbe. United States in <tea.lin& with crimin<&U.? I 'hop:· not, but I (e;sr so.

Alre.1dy dt~re arc: rc'f(lh•inl! door& :tt m11in entra.ncct to m<ltt polioe Wtions. As quiekl)' as polioc round liP lawbrcoken. th.ey are rdeastd attd b:1ck oo tbe sueets in roootd time. The police in Ibis oo11ntry :m: hdplc::!i to <::UT)' ou the m2nd11tC$ to 11:bi<:b tlte)' are picdgc:d. Violwt c.rime is on 1he upswing in 'nMt conumu•ltle.s In Ca!'lad:s.

Arc we moving toward a ~I)' where tberc is mot-e 000· cem f(K' the. rights of tbe critnitllll than for tbe rif,ht.s of the in.IWOC:nt'! J bopc: not. I do oot wtlllt t(l :;ee 2 ~miety "''here the. civil liberties of the lawbreaku 0\'trride the bo.sie ri,eltt$ of tbe l:n>Ntbiding dt12tn.

13516 COMMONS DEBATES Nove:mber 30. 1981

Tht Coi/JilturiOII I am sute tb3t all P'rogrc;.sh·t Coosen·:ttive members bYe

tectived in • ·ri ting the CQIKC41l$ or tbe Ontario AttotDC)' Gener"l io this tcgatd. I am sure tl1at all parli.1.nentaria nt have rcoeived the: obj«til.>n$ or •.he Onu•Jio Police Asootiation tO the c.ndusiooery rule. Me .,.'C adopting •he U.S. Miranda convcnlion? I ocrtajoly bope oot.

• (!010.

Former SCJI~tor £og.cne. Fof'llt)', nuw retired, i.o; one of tbe •no~t re~peeted O()al~t itt~tiQfllll cxpc:sts in this couotr)'. Pennit me to read .,.·hot he •'ro(e!

I( <Oo:; d~fl ill hu«, ~ I'I'U.J h)~ 10 ~~ Ill !$Ire, IIIUI 1 Ycrf ~ng;>d kiiVf'f, Wt ooutd be st11tk "'"' il bkoldicol Cvnf.tih,oliQ!o r ... ., P"""'tiorl or­O!t <hlld/'1::11 And o)l" .:l!ildn:11"J <f!ilofnn _,lit '-'•"~ 10 Ju(lcr 1!10 OOII~nw ~ ..... tiltdcw"''"· wr f«tlus-

lay.::e witb th ls: thC$is a hundred pet ocnt. Is there nu wny t b<&t this imperfcec document may be boisted

,'I(J thlll it may be made mot'e perrec~. a$ pc:rfect as th~ input or all i.ntcreued aM ln\'01..-ed: Cat~11di.illns will llliOW; 11 eofli.lit11ent ass~Jnbly taking nt least M long as tbc origina.l documctn took wbk:b •·as ended by d06ui'C? Js tJ1ere any S;!ne. rt'.t$0n for th_i~;

iDOrdinatc h:ute to rut;b to judsmeoc. to Great Britain? b t heo= any JoB-i•:.-1 l'elllSOI'I for tbc impositioo of informal closure by lhc sovernme-nt Ho11st: Leader? Art there. any C'Cimpclling reasons. and If tbtrt· ale., I (nil to li« them. WiU tbis resolution m;ake C:H\IIda n beuer plae< to li11e in? Will ·it create bannony and unity? Will it heal ... oond$ r:ltl~r th;ao eni:JI.te new Qnct'? WiU il make better posrtners of tbe '"''0 f0t111ding uces in OOrlfeckr,t.ion'! Will il strike down itiSid.ious irh-'3Sioos ~sainM liu!&Vtt.S~ fr('~om, su-cb a.s DiU 101 ln Qucbc:,·'!' Will it gu.1nm· tee tbe same b ng,uasc r l,&hls to the Co,glish--.speaki.~ minority i.n Quebec <ts it dOC$ to tbe Frc:t~ch·spealdag minor-itic~ in tlt<C ockr nine PfOIIinc:es?

The Hous.cs or htliacunt here h:h•e ~e- 1,8(10 e-mploycc:s. About SO pet cent (I( m;IJ\<t!ement cotmsu of nnsJopOOnc:s and abOut SO per <:c:nt of franoopbonc.s. tbe t c:maining t~thlr&

being franeopbones.. ts 'this emi,Joyrn.:: .. t by merit or b)' lu · guage? l'>ocs thi$ llouiM;l right; does it sound fair? WiU the ch11rt.er amail or promul.gate these thing.1?

l,fnder Scctk>ns 23 and 58, .,.,m tbe provision 10 aiJow provirtecs to opt into tan,su.age t ithu enh3nf!i'- .1nd 11dvan~ tbe govctttn)Cnt's lingu~tic ao01l11 for tb~ nation? I fear oot, and I al.s<l fear insticutioRaJizcd biHngualiml. I fe3t tbe. Can:Sda clauSIC and I ftar fur t.hc €ng1Jsh lan~se in view of this tO\'Ctn.mcnt'll PQlicie$.

I.W: )'011., ""'bill will this natiQn raoc ifQucbe<: ~·er $CCCdes1 I am afraid th<:~ '<~'ill be aetirnony. aDd acrimony of the 1l'IOSl bitter kind.

Under Scetitln 28 the: noewithstandiog clallSe is really 8Jl override, The much vaurucd Charter or Rights and FreedO«m is really not ~ntreochl!d .,r cnthrined in the Consaitutioo, Jt is. subjeet ta c.lulnge ~~ Lbe future discretion of federal ~nd prc.wincial legislators.. I h11ppcn to dissytc w!Lb d1i$ appruo.eh. The dtaftsmcl'l art:· auemJ~lng to ensure that the cu.stodia.ns or our tighu '>''ill not be .appointed judktat)', but the elected repre:>cntatives in lbc federal and pnwindalaJc:ms.

I happen to be on< qf those who feel and bdicvo stronaJ)' that bssic humao rights arc oot nc«otiable and not amendable. These tlgbu were DO( gi¥«1 t() u.~ by th.:: sutot. 1'bl.:y arc inalic.nable riahtll which stem from c;enturies of ci\•il and commoo la.,.•, from oonrrontatioll$ with the moc'larcbs and the batc>m'l, tu,d rrom bJoody biiHICll in the ddcm:e-of liberty 11nd fr«OOm. ThC$C ate inalieool)le ri.tfus, M ba.s bceo stated so man)' tln)CS;: the right to Hre. lib<'rty and t.he o.,..nctship ol prl)pel1y. The .~oUte is not &ivin.g U$ IHQ' rig&til we do nut al~d)' possess.. To attempt to formalize these rights in a e.harttt b: cai'T)'in.g cools 10 Neweailtle. Anythiln~ tbat is not written ~'n I <:nn do. h ilf lbose lbina:s dH&t arc cJooe bad:.,.-ards that I feat.

Tbc right to freedom of rcli,ion does oot require any legislation wl1ieb m~y pennh 11 "not...,•ithst.and.ing" ebu.ie.. The riS}II 10 fr<:Cdom o( spocx:b does not reqgire any legisla•ion .,.,hith may permit a ''tlotwithst.aztdiog .. clauSIC. The right to frted<lm of tlllkmbly dotS riOt require any l,cg.is.Jation which m.1y p::rmii ll ··notwithstandin.a" <:lause. Tbe righl to own property does not n:qujre any legi!lation .,.,hich may petmit a "nMwitMt.anding"' clruue.

By the y.•ay, und.::r S.::ction 2. when• U th~ nght to pOJ.'Ie~ and enjoy the ownership of privale propert)' i.n tbe Charter of Rights and Prcedoms? You 'll'ill oot Ond it. and ·do not gi~--e me:. thl:· bally·l•oO 11buut pr..n'indal right$.

May unly the state(w.'R pr~rl)'? Tbt right to (l••n prc>pt:rty Js u_ sactcd riebt in 1his country and i_n 11 f<w <Xhers. Its omiss.ion from tbe charter is iztddcmiblc in fl\)o' opi.niott. His­t<lrlcally .... --e luvt jtJways had that inalien11ble right •o ptt.~perty. E.''f" Mi~e.hiavetn, wbo w;as championed by t lle ri&hl bon. gentleman atross the '11'8)', &tatc:d:

When eldchu thtir ~peny 110t (heir llor.o<~r i:e; IOudillt!d. !lit ml..iotlt~· ot ll'lm li''I'CMn!cnl.

Let me quote from Cbnrlc:s E\'111\S. Huabes in e $pooeb tH Ehnira, New York. in 1907. He.S3id this:

W<e ~~~ ttAdel t -$h{UI!011, b~! !lit llOII$d!lltbl b W~t t~ ~~ lol)' lt 1$, 11d l~ j..S:io.ry i l !III~· U.fCJIIa-fll cl~~~ libcfiJ u ol (I( illll po'.t'l)' 11nd:. !b~ w~il ~(iQII,

Pope Leo XIII stated in 1891: l?TKY I'IUn hu br n••urott.: risht w p:M(IS!Ipro;e.rcy u llis .,..n

h i~ lu.d.icrout in my vk • ttl pl'(lplS>e llu<:h a tcnt.•u!ve eh.uter. Jl i.s an arfrom eo simple ]11s~ ioc, ~llaJity, libe.rty and froedool to propose a cbanet which migbt be subject to cbange Ill Lhe. ,.,·him <w caprice of SOmt< 1c:tUlati'v~ b<ldy. Fttl:dum of speeclt. rc.l igion, ~:;r;cmbly ~nd tbe rigbt lo own property ~re bas.ic human tight$. TbC:)' arc less than secure or snfc if they are subjected to a '"n<~twithstandillg" ef:iuje:.

These ft~ndil •nental rteedoms should ntean the s:tmt· throus}lout eecb a.nd every prc,wjnoe in lbis countr)'· We ba~-e a lways assumed tbat our rigbts ate universal and portable. We 1.:~\'t' n..w.::r considered for a $in81e- 1n<lfnt11t th:at they 1nig,bt ''Ill)' <K be subj«tcd to diJTC1'ent it~tcrprctll.tioos depending on what ptovihCC we are in.

If rights must be c:otrcnchcd, so be it. bu1 let them be cntrentbl:d without qw.Jii1C2t.l1Jn ur 0\'trrlde. ln my llftthne I

NO\oembcr 30, 198l COMMONS DEBATES IJ~t7

hsve setlt too many.abu&cs or t he ri&ht.s or $Oft)~ ~~1\Wbly lO rr()tcc:t the riabu or <JC.hel'$,

I think pcthaps it "''U John Stuart MiJI who aid literal.ly th;tt ~-ery m;tn ll.13 t he rieflt to ao lo hdl io tbe roaonet of his own choosing $0 loog as be does t101 bot.bct bis neighbour. J would pte!er to talce my chanees with tbe cwrtll intel")lfeting my riaht$. I do not s~;~lnocribc to tbc: doctrine or kgislati~ supremacy in all cases. If you pt"der to go the route of legi.dati \•e $uprem.acy. m~ybe you £hould t11Jk to the J~pancse­Canudians whose. riaJlts were overriddea during Wotld War H. or talk to tbc:. Jeho'lah's WitMSSts in Quebec' ..

I do n()( fa\wr any IOS&ely wonled protcc.tion o( basic rights ••hicb will permit the pa.uase ol dikriminatory legislation. le has been written by ollterl that the .. n<JCwithstanding .. c.Jause is u "wateri.ng down." a "gutting" aDd a "dls:embo.,.-ellitlg,. ol the Cbarter of Ri&hb .and f'rtcdom:s. T'Jic "'ootwith.«anding" cl.aU$e weaken& the <:ba«er, it does noc strcngtbea it. Freedom of rdi.gion means jU$l Wt-CIO "'ifs", "ttlds'• or "buts'". The. same £_.:11:11 for our Qther fundamental ria}lts and freedotm..

Will w~ be better off ,.,ith a Charter o( Rlghu and Frce­doms? Will •·e be more united? Will this prwosed ch.ancr dfvioek u.s? Those arc interesting q11estion.s.

Tbe United States has an ttltrtmiaed efla.rter, but ils ebaru:r ...,1U wr~Stkd. fQtl£ hl f~ an bkd (or. lt WIU a dccl;lmt.ioo of ind~pelldcnce from a.notbet cotunry. That is a vast. vast differcoce.

On lhc ocher side ol tbc: Atlaotioc: the United Kingdom does not bave an entrec.cbed ebartet of t ights. In f~ct, the VJ<. does not bave a formal oun~tilution. The U.S.S.R. his one: of t he brQtUk$t and most h"manitarian <:barters for the prote~ tion of th'iJ liberties tbt exdu a.n_yv~bere. in tbe-..-·(lll'fd. N~ I uy any mQre'! So rouch for entrenchment.

We have existed for 114 ye;srs • •il.bout an et1uencbcd cl13tt· er of rights and freedom.~. and I think th.a t. with a ~;ouple or Ql:wiot» 1:;\CCplion&, we hare done remarkably wdl. Most CanadialiS want an end to this debate, but I do I\Ot bellC\>e tbey wislh a.n impcr(ec:t tba.rter llS t he pric.:e. I do not belie'I'C they want a.n imp«fCC't Constitution. I would again tik~ to quote from Seoator Forsey who.sald: --lr "'"' 8tt •~ cll!tcnthcd d.Jrtu or illlli•;iJual -.cl .. in~trily lincuiJ~i.; npll$, ,..uinll lhcm <1111 11r 1~ p)">W (![ h rli.t.li;fnl or thll pf'OYill(iat t~.Pd"II'*"'J to - .;h •• • Suo,:h a fNrctr -w al•'t- dw "*"' w~lr ne"; aid vlull) imp«· CUt. powtt'$ OO't-r 1 Ollst ~"' lltld ot alojotu.:. and the li"«)' itt !.he t,lni!Od SUitS slltl•u hoi,. rouru..::.." iotcrt•ocl "" erou.no:lml bill ~tf f'iltu 10 Wild< .o.:W pqroo. & !hf dr~fiPc o( U(h a bill. Of ( huttr. ,.ill be bo .. delit'Ott a!WI U lldlll,

f« cumpk: ll toO'IS'IilwliilQol 8""•aoccc ((lt ~""'n'* w h.ow t!Wir dlilo1.'1'C cd~lo4 ;. 1Mi• mother~' (F~n-:11, EnlliQ.or ~ti••) ,..,.,Id 1101 ~ the (f'f<dom d diM Wtio:b lilt llnbt<J N11lons llll$ d.:o:ta~ cucnUIII. Aa Bla!ltb41)(>.lk!fl$ CaMdlllll ... ~ '"•Mat•t~ ht•c hi• ehi~n cd..et!cd po..Aty r. f'rmet, or 11 Fn:~h~·;"l O.Mdi'" wlq ~ni<ICI w '-••~ tis dlildrc:n ~;td PQ~rll)' i11 E41albll. or an fn!li;,n or ln~tit "".bcl•ant~ to 11.:1•~ his chitdrflt •"wt c:'f!t d'f il Fr~b Of &llti~' 10'0Uid ht•c 110 «<fllllt'C!Ionli pN~«tbt ,.1wl!tnt.

I do not beliC'\•e that the pc:<tple of Can~~da wish 10 trade parliamentar)' law for QQII:Siitl.llional Jaw. ( feel $01T1chow tbi:s evening that my remarks here are roduOOant. The d)'e bas

TM COitstltutlon

;already been t'Ut. We are aJI a-.•are o( it on thill stde or the House.

• ( lO!olt

The aovemmcnt is dctetmmined to prooood ba.stil-y witb thiJ lnferlo.- product "'-hile wt suffer tbe conscqueDCCS latet. Jt tllaY be ne•'$ to t he JOYern.ment bu.t Canadl.an$ do not rate the Coostitution .. 'Cry highly in the pe<:kill$ «dcr. N Canadian$ perceivE:-h, I am told tbst it ranlcJ about firtlt. h rates below the «<nomi~; iJ.M~C$,

1 nm &ure tbat mOISt C anadbn$t;Ondemn the headk>oa h<t$tc or this covero.t»Cnt to pmiate the Coostitution. No one will dillll8-fec witb the- laudatory principle of pattiation of the. British North America A~ to Canada liO that oor national ltlfraslt'Uctutt: may be ame.ndcd in Canada b)' Canadians. whtch is not the Jitlllltion oow. Patrialin& the 8rhi$h Notth America Act and adopting an amen.diog formu.la ate Iona owrdue me.asun!IS, but as the old Ohlntse ~~rb say~ "E\~ry journe)· of~ thouu.Dd )'CUll requii"C$ ;a rin t Jtcp.''

Many of my <:olkague:s and l•re prepurod to 1-i!i:e dtat firJ t step b'tl:t many of u.s arc reluctant to voice: our approval for &omethin& wftieb is int:ompkte, inferior and 3. ptoduet of poor drartsmansbip.

Give us the wayJ aDd mean& to unite thi11 Q)untr)'. <.ih'C UJ tJ1e Of!POrtun.ity to unite as Canadians while casting paitisan politiC$ 11$-ido fDJ tbt O(lfl1!1l<)O £_0lll, :tnd give US the hOpe that ..-·e may ha~'C a basic rC$0J~tion whi~;h «;a.n be CAnmincd and ittlproved from time to time. Wtdntlida)' at :3 p.m. is not tong enough. l,.cl us not atkmpt tl> hubbk:. futu re: generations of Canadian le,Uiator.s, the judiQary and ordinary Cu.nad~nJ with what is expcdietlt and at tbe time politically prop«'.

We mull~ 6o what ill right. I (111.1-'-t dq whitt I c:(Jn:sidc:r ri&ht and not just "''b:at is popular. h is to be hoped that aU ol.lr OC)nlltitgentJ will unckr.nanct what we are doing.. We will atwars neod a sah'C in tbi.s c:ountry tq 3QOtbe tbe rcsi(Jns and ptO\-inces, but now m«e tban ever.

Lc:.t u.s $lowly c:mbart on tb11t journey of 11 thwl>.&nd }'CJII'l:l,

but we should make haste slowly. Next Wednesday at three o'clock. it a momen1 ol srtat persooal and national decisioo. Donnc:.said. -Ask 001 (or whom the: bclll<tll ~, ic coiJs (or thee."

Hott. Br)'te Mac-bMy (LiacoiiJ): Mr. $pe;cker, when I ClltJK. to the House o( Common:s in 1962, many years ago. I think th:t.t my vie..-'!C on the is.~ue of unity. bil i~guallsm and mu.lticulturatism bad already bc:.cn fairly ..-'Cl! f()fmul llted.

I mitbt just say, ~~t•ithout going in!o d«ail. that my forma­tive yeu.r$ were .spent in a ocwnmunit)' Cltlll:d Sillery, halfway belwun Quebec and Que~ Bridge. As I recall. it wa$ .;c commullit}' wlt.idc ..-u cnade upv.'Ord ptincipally of Frcncb­$JIC$kiP.g Canu.dia!U-'I''C 113cd tbl: ..-'C)rd "Cauo3dien'' itt tbose days. not Q\16b6rois. There Wll.$ a lar&e n1,1mbc:r of l ri$h Canadians at1d Soocs living there. h was a community wbidt wo.s the C.Jtoc:ptioo rv,ctcu th;cn t he rule .. I bud tl~e privilege of learning Frenc.h. not in 9Cb0Cli but from fren<:b~pcaking Can:tdi:.nll, (or whom I ho3d 11 great affinity e~-en a.s a )'OtU'Ig· Jt«. We did many thinJ!.$ in oomm~,m. \Ve played ball, hockey,

.. IH18 COMMONS DEBATES NO\•tmbet 30. 1981

Tlu (;()flstirution

ran to Vt'$petS in the e~ening. wet~l to !NI~ whk h started at 10.30 lr1 the monling a;~d lini$hed at 1.30 <w 2 i11 the afiemoon on Sunday. We k arncd to respoct ea~b other. We learned to res:pect eacl' other'i Ja.ngu~ge., ct~hurt and ttadi!loos. Now and t hen we tmded in.~ults, wbit:b is norm.1l, IIJld l:tud 11(!\;lllargll• ments which disappeared 0\'ctnigbt.

Whot~ I came to the House or C()fnm<IIU i:n. 1962 I wat uppalled .ut tbe l<&<.:k o( sei\I'Siti\'ity bere. D<x:11ments •·ere tabled in the French lansuagc .,.-cek:s after the English version. an.d C\'Ct'l those t:r.tnd:!l.il)rn~ were poor. 1'here "'·ere unilins ual £Utrd::~ • t the froot door, w·bjclJ was all emberrassment to all metnbei'S fi'OOl Quebec wbo had Frtncb-spcaklng OOII.Uituents visiting t1teir Parlianw:nt.

Due to tbe forc;ight of Mr. Diefet~lxtker, wbo n.ttmod lhe f iru F~rteb·speaklns 00\•t rl)()f' Ocn-er;sl, a nd tbc: wi'(;dc)m ;~ nd ~~Cruith·i.ly of Mr. Pe;u$0tl, wbo ~t up lbe la11rendeau-.Dun1on Commission . .s.Jowly but $li!C"l ) ' the undernanding of tbc:-House in that l"e.\Pttt evoh'td. When the Offit i"'l l..an&IW!et Act f:ll ftiC- be(ofc Parliament in 1%9, il "''as elldotsc:d by \'ir1ually aJI members of the Housc:.

I had ra.ther t~implts~ic vie~ on 1flc Cc.>nl!litutioo in 1?1)2. J 5l!W 01 «<UOtr)' in " 'bich botb official languages would be t c:cogn.iud from ooe octan to the oibe,; ~he-fe- Fre..ct.~pcak· lng C.an~&diAn$ oould send their ehi.ldren to the ~hoot of lheir c:hoia:, al> l oooJd in Quebec. h was 11 right. ooc a privilege.. I visualized a tnuhicuhtuul country in whicb aiJ Ca112dianl "'t~ equal. (linked tlu t with t he cf!<:logc in 1he Com~dtu tion. I even ~~~ being encouraged by Mr. Peatsoo in tbc: 1960s, as an E~tglis.h-spcating Qut~r tn a pred<>!nin:in!Jy Fn:n(·h·~peal·

ing eaucU5, tc:> pre$e:nt the views of E.nati.W·tlpcll.ldos Qvebcc«s forcdulfy in tbat c.auc.u. H O'I\'C\'c:t, an bout ot two Jat« I •'OOJd fi nd myself ·atgulng the vit: .... '$ of French•$pt;::llr.ing Can~dian$ aloniJ with Frc:ocb·spealr.ing members in tbe no lion· aJ f;l~ UCUS..

Thos:t "'tre lOOs!• ililyi, da)~ .,.·IKn Lhe Prc~>id~nt q( the CNR ~id he could not find eno~~~gb French-speaking Ca11ad i· ans to name to the board of dircctoo of the CNR. 1t was oot prejod!c~. but ln$em'litMty, intoler:mc:e-a nd mi$u ndmuandin.g. I have .seen veat progress made since. Tbat is wby I am a Steal admirer of tbc:. prc:sc:ot PrinlC Ministc:t (Mr. Trudcau). beesuse imperfect .1~ thil~ Cl)l!$tiluti(>n und tbc Cl\l•ru:r of Rif:ht.s a nd Fr«dom~ ate. the Officials Languages Act is .still enshrined in the Constitution. 1t is beyond u,., gr.:~sp of petty pc:.litid:uu; who m:1y in t he future, U poliliQll)' e~~:pedicnl. wi$b to modify or change tbc:. Official l anguages Act.

Fot tbe firSt tirne, f'l'('nch·Spe:lJcing Can:1dia 1111 outside Qu-ebec will be llbk to dernoncl th;~ t their childte.n bo: cdiJ.;IJ.ted in i.heir mother tongue. by virtue of Section 23. The ptO\'isioo ~~ less ~n ideal-it is fl1t1 ittd by tht J•·h r:U~ "wJ1ere number:' wurrant"-but at le:•$~ il is o step in the risht diret:tic.m. 1t l>hows which " 'aY we wa.nt this country to grow. I sm pleased that tbc: two etitc:t i:a i~ Sectioa ll ~a long ""'t) ' to impkment~ in& tbe o.lnttpl of freedom of chl)if.-e. I ;un $ liUk " nh.1ppy that Section 2J is limited as far as that applfcation is f:On­« rn<d to the Englisb-sp::at:lng people !!If my ff>nl'le:t pnwinoo ()(Quebec. I um S()fry that ~cX>n 58 bad to be introduced tn

lhat te90iotioo wbieb limits to some degree ftccdotu of choke. If members <'IJ'!POSitt · fed ill! lltrl)ngl)· ab.>ut Section S8 ~~~ the member 'llo'bo &at down, be or his pany tomorrow can make an amendmc:m to t C:O)OVC Section 58 ft«n the <:barter if Lhty fttl lik'e it. I dq ~ think they will,

I am coascious, since I bave been in Lineol11, of tbe privi­leged Jl(l'liti(lfl I really bad as a yoongst« in Quebec. I am .sorry that the Co~titutioo dOt$ 001 include the prQVi:i.i(ln of Seedon 131 in CVC:1')" ptovince across tbe c::oonuy. r am truly li!Oiry about that. l~&pplaud Mr. Hatfield a11d his ptogrt:SSi\'t-3-pproach to tbat issue. I am pk8$ed .. in olher wmd11, ttmt 11'<:

h:1ve go~ a loog 'it.·:ly, through lhe Constitution. to reecify o)d

i.tijusticC$,

• (lWOI

Tbe boo. gentletwn who ju11t $at down rt:ellUed the-intoler· an~ or Qutbee. and he tMnti<~~~ed the J~l'lov:tlf!l Wil~es and linked lbat situ.:ttioR somc:bow ""'ith the Prime Mi.nistet (Mr. Trudcau), I sus~t tbo~ his k.nowledge o( Quo!: bet hiStl)t)' is "'C:ty sketchy and very .wpetficial bccu~J;S~C if he knew llllY· th ins~nd he il not here at thc:.niO!nent- he ~oold t now that it • ·as Pierre El li<.l4 t Trudeolu and Fronk $.:;ott whu tool: d 11: C:l$iC of Lbe JellO'I>sb's WitAC$SIC$ all the way up 10 •he Supreme c~)U~ ag;• in..~t Mr. Oupj.::~u and wip.:d 001 that infamous padlock lau•, Tbat 5ame Pierre l:Uiolt Truclc:eu is the J•rime Ministet ol Lhl$ OOUI'Itt)'.

l do oot koow 110""' I will vote on SC~;tion S-3, h botbc:C'$ me:, concernS 11'1e and llfO«"ries me. I k.tlo""' how important language i$ to Fren<:h•!'pt::1k:ing C.1.n;u1ian$. Tbeir b:1ttle tor ll.ur~h·aJ l'l well documented. Tboma-~ D'arq McGce. who W <J$ one of t.bc: F'~IJ•erS of CoofOOeration tepresentiii.S tbe tiding I rcprc:sc:ntc:d wbc:n ( kfl here in 197<1 to 8(1 W Quebt>e I(> $t t:k electiM~ ll.aid as far lxlcl: as 1857:

·r~~~: t£ ... 41tn bold 4:!~r d1u Udul'lr. their -».:id tif11, their hiu,.-iQt 11111k. tloM rtfitllla, t lotir ~~~~rowlily . . • Tlcll .l.ln*~ k t!ld r f"))nt of boncm 111 .,.'C'II IIJ :hd"r ko"' of 1'0""'· $• ""tat llo:y ~it, !l> ~j' •_re u-Qut•cd. \lo'hon it o:cues to bciii)OI::tll bytl>cir <llilll~n.~ t:,....,,~ 11),, llnn Ml!~l.,dm'• • ill !o< fdl.

I ~hare tha t ''iew. I expressed it in tbc Q-cebe<; NatioDal Ass.tnlbJ)' l11e day I left. I admire Frencb-spc:aldng Canadians tor fizbtin£ );() vd~<:mently fC)r thdr b n$,U.38,C.

Tlw:re ill tUIOCJter te39011 boo. mc:mbu s opposit e t~bou ld wcl­t:ome SocrWn 23 all il II J>jllie~ to French-speaking Canadians living outside Que~. Tbey t~l!ould be pl~~~td :11 the. u:ten~;ion or S.;.-ctioo ill to New BruMwiek because there 11rc many formt; of se~rutit!n nnd n!;!11y VJ:l.)'ll b)' whiclt sepatatism ean ooeur. 11~ pc:t baps the tn0$1 dangeroo$, bea u!.il: it i:t tbe m4!i't 11ubd~. is 1.11~ kiOO: of stpatatioo thst woukl intwitabl)' ret;uh if $Om<:bow ln tbe future Quc~c 'fl.'trt to cvl!llve into a uniling\lal French ptO\'inoe <~ nd the rc.1~ of <)an~~;d:a were to b.::J."'me WtAII)' En.~;lbh. I n oo lime:. vre 'iii'OU)d cc:a1e oommunic:ating, In oo time we "''Oilld 5tp.u~t~ into 1wo 1l:l1ion st:tltS. ltl no Lime such separation would be iliC\.'itablc. On October 13, 1~76. In ll speceh I ga,•e. tbe. •light before I announced m)· re.»gnntil)n in this Ho~.~.SC, I Slljd :

NO\>c:mber 30, 1981 COMMONS DEBATES 13519

But d.ere ~ Uo)I,Mf raod " ·' ~·*" '"'-' ;. lll(ln: d•~ to:.- iil k •tt~~~ $0 ~tcU. I( -• tlw: nul d-~ O,nld• ~~ 14 ~~~a wuniJJ m..­"1" .:.r ' " '' IJ'Wp.l. ( WO -.munitlo. ,,.o -&he\101, if'~ llb:l- lile: tpe:~kirl:l; 01111 -=-m~elo Ulol i i<C' l'llkr.s...,.L"i~~tqnly E-.!itll-~ • 1 rd.ci~l)'~"' pniod of l imc,ll(ol)l VO'I'Pt -.Id be·II.._.U'd. <llllllr.ly. oe<IIIOMIW!y or ~b)' tile UlliloiSIII~eJof AIIIC'tlcl.ll le \le llifiill8..,.1 el>lr~e\a of c;sno4lo ~I -c I hill lfl)t hifl3, p.- il ~i*illi\IC "-re," eull_.l ..-imilu;o..: it iJ ~~.X''"""~ llt-ootlll!l l"c ,.look cwnur •h•t hu ~n-ed • $(1 br ftofl'l toUJ (IO.'OIIOillico ""'t.;w.ic-

Thal is one re:;OOn, Mr. Spc;~ker, if )W do not buy any other, tb~t ·~ .!>houJd welc:omc the gi'O'IIo'th in numbers of tbe Agdian people and bope that the cautious s1eps wken in thc­Constiuniotn m;a)' $()Tl1ehow '"u.h in a decade or two in a $.llbt&tanti:AI c:ro••tll in the numbert of Freoch Ca11~dians out· s,ide Quebec.

Wb:Habo\11 the English speaking cocnmun.ity or Quebce? It his b«n privik:f!ed: I iay tb:u "''ilhout he.siUti\ln. Wbert· Ontario at1d M:u~itoba skirted the wiJI of the Fa thers or Conrcdcnuion Quebec. honoured it to the letter or1he law, and more. We bave our own. 9Cbool S)'Slt.m becaU$eOf$eelion ~l cf I he: Co•u.titution. r ·rcnc'-"peAk.inJ Cllllildi;ans in Ontario .-·ill nul ha'~ tbat C\'C:r aft« tbe «<Mliunional cban3C*. We have our bospilab. our schools. ou.r u.nl rersitie11l\nd ou.r infnutruc> turt but. l\S the Mintmr of St<tte (Mr. Jo)'al) said todcly, corolment in the Engtish-spcaki.ngsthtMII ~;)'$tem i1 down by J:J pet cent in five )'t:l.l'il. ft is duwn because. En&lillh hllll been prescribed by Vr. Lu1.1rio in a oeat liuk bo,x; no oddilion to iU oaturalsouroc or nwnbers: tbe lower bitth nue: tboosands or people have t'OO\'cd out or Quebec fot ccoi)C)mic rta.s:Ms: a close. tittht defini1ion or 'l!.'bhl is >~n Englis.Mpe:ak.ilic Dnadiao: and tbe fact that EnglislHipeak.ing peop1e from outside Canada C3tlnot c.nttr tht: Engltih &eltool sysu:m in Quc:bte at lbc mqment. wmetbina ·~ are redifyinc with the Canada clause. AU these things; bave limited any injection Into tbll t linlt youp ol people\ whkh $lOwly but .tun:ly U dim.ini$hing in nllmbc:r. Unfonunnteiy, Section 58 postpones roctiJying this Cor allOiher iDdelinite (l«iod. until somt more ct~li.g.ht«<cd provincial sovernmc.nt Olmlt:s a Ion.& and Opt$ into the mother ton,rue feaum: .. h is too bad •>c: did not bave tbe generosity ol spirit to do it oow. I say tbat si~cl)·. I have to !lay it; it bodt~r!l me~ :tnd it hurl$ me.

1 .;ould unde~and it if lhe tHJtnber!l were the otbct way. I c:oold understand it ir the. Eng.lish•$pe;aldns Qucbeoer repre• stnted ll thn:;at 10 tbe lilnJ\I• Je and cvlture or French Qucb<:Q, The real threat oomcs rro1n tile rteld of e;oqnmunieationfl, ~lt the Minister of Co.nmunJC'.l.tkmil (Mr. Fox) 1111.id at the weekend. Tt con"td from Archic: 6vnker oo the boob tube. 1t does not c;omc frQnl the presenoe or a re~· bu.ndted thoussnd kids in school Tbat is t he lit1e th-e P<tr1i Qutbe"-ois h.:si! dcvdopcd and romre:d throush thl: dt~de in onkr to prnish all tbe ma\·eriek.s.. ruuion.alists Md misli ts pouible to join forces with those who lctitimately thi11k indqlt:nd~DCe. ill best.

I say to my rom1er cititclt rri.ends in Quebec that tbe.y bave to ~gnize th:tt the t haMer is not quite wb;ll they ~d h<.lped it w()uld be, bl.lt it I()I;:S a Jon1 way towatd pc:rfectioo, We l'(:tain our oonreasional &ebooti. Tbc dl:ttttt ooot11Jns at l.cas.t a tlausc which says th2t If )W wen~ cduCl•lcd in l:sisJi$h in ;:my of the M.hcr pc-ovinccs 01nd you are «~ming to Quebec, )'OUt

110106-20

Tilt COiutlttlfiOft

ehitdre:n •'()tlld be:-:1ble to &O t() a,n English sc.hool. h CoQt~J.i.n11 a cla~ oi whkh in a rew yee.rs, happily, aoo4her £0\lc.tnmeot .. ,.m see lit to take advanta,ge. namely, restQf;lli<>n <)( frcoct.om cf cbllice f<w ~nadi:tn titizem. This: is in addition ~ all tbe otber benefiU. in tlle charltr "''hkh now to C.st!adi:tns. ••bat· ever their language and wbateV<:f their pcrsu;a~;i<ln.

f say, howC"Vtr, Ul boo. metnbcl'!l opposite, as a friend and as one who fceb thi.s deeply, lb;'lt if the)' brin& in ao llltliCDdn~nt tomorrow a.nd play petty politk:l whb 01~ mi.lti()n Enali~;h· spcal::i.n& Qucbec:cr!l....,an ilmendme:ut. fot instanoe, whicb says we will wipe out Sec.tion 13 entirely in order t() appe~ 1bc Quebec &overtlniCtlt boeause "''C must bring tbe Quc:boc g~·· ~rnmcnt in someOOw- lhe-En.slish tommunity will DC)f forget tbeTorics or the New Democratic Pany. and I wiJI ~ 1(1 that, boc;ua.se th.'lt .-'OOld be ra.tlk discrlminatioo. That ,.'OUld be denying the Englis~kina people ..,r Que~ no1 only frte· doom of choke but also the Canada clause 10 wbich Mr. Uvesquc a.grecd. ~e ycan ago io St. A•tdtew!l.

I bave sat here and 1islened. I bn\'C· reu.d the lcucr from lhc: Leader <J the Opp:tlitloa (Mr. Clatk) to Mr. Lh'esque. l heard little bit.s Q( a $pee-~.il la.'ll ni,s.ht in Monlre!l. 1 hear that a nJcc little ame.nd.menl wiU be coming tomorrow. I llQpC it is not >~n .amendment • ·bleb sugg.csl.! for a moment that Section 23 be postpoDed untiJ some fulure time, In the vain bope tbat 110mehow the Pani QuCb6eois cao be &educed int<l I'UPIJOrting the Cookn·atl,•e. Party i.n tbc ocxt ~teccioD. Ncx only will they klse tbe P\trti QuibC~. whieh they nt~t h:td, but they wm bie the Englisb-speaking oommunity wbich u~r normal cirtumslanC:d SUPPOrts that po.rty insurptising numbets.

Mr. Bk•kam: Tell mewben,

Mr. M.cb K)': When? Mr. DieiCnbnker al•·ays pkked up eight or ten se:tts. He had the support of the normal En,lh h­speating Qu~bece:r who traditiooally supports the TOties., as he s.houkl hav-e under ou._r $~tern . Pc:riodicatly dt<ll Eng,Ush·$pcak· in.g Quebecet st~pportod the Ubetals" aod thh Prime Minis1er ba·tuJS>c: they ftlt th3t somebody i.n ttiis House '111'811 speaking out f<K their riaJ!ts. Until the hon. member mentiun.c:d En:glb11• aptakin.g Quebecets tonig.bt. and tbe member ••ho 6J'(Ike berore supper did 50 too. nt~bbdy ln tbe Hoose. got up t() 11ay o~te word oo their bcllatr. lt ""'0111 if they did not e):tn . lluwever, there 2te ct~e miUioo .such people in Quebec. more than tbe. popula· tion or Sa.~kateflc:wan or Manitobl- 1 tnay have fotgotttn. my figures-who 1U<: Canadi.Jo11. Tbey l!,)()t tn this Pllrli;mu:mt u f.ed«IIJisls for tbcir ri.&Jlts. Tbey loo': eo the ebo.ner. Tbey look eo the hem. mc:mbtr for Saint·Htttri-Wcstll'lOilnt (Mr. John· rton) or to tll~ Prime Minister or tO lhc Quebec C'aul'\18 to pi'O(cct tbcir right~.

I do nl)t spnk in anae-r. I speak gently at~d $0ltly. Howt\'tr, I WII,S appalled wbctll heard the l,.eltclc:r or the New Ocm<Qlll • ic Party rerer to new Canadiaos the other day u immigrants .1nd ua;.in <Wer a r2dtll or u:k:visiot~ t bow 0t1 SuDday. lt ill aJmost as though thete ha$ to be ;1 po1wn in tl,c: tb.:s11 pme bet'I\'CCtl the [odet:ll ~-ernmCflt aod tJle .s<:p;Hat~S. $omebow

1352() COMMONS DEBATES Novc.mb<:r 30. 1981

Tit~ Constftulf<m

that p(lwn in the cha., pme U. one miiJioa Eoalisb4pc:akin' Quebcccn. I hope tbat is not tbe case.

f wiU ptobably $Uppoort thl:~ rdOiutlort rcluCUi.ntly, not nearly as rrecly ll' I •·ould hnve if Scx:tioo 58 had not fo~o~ocf its .,.·ay into tbe resolutioo two weeks ago. J aoccpt the explan.ation or tbe. Presld~t of the Treas-ury Bc»rd made in the Hou~e. :t ... ~le

.aao Monday. 1 acc;.ept the Prime Mini:su:r's remiOOen peri<.ldi· cally that pc:rfectioo c:3n be the enemy oftbe good. I just hope that, i.n t.hd r an:~~kty to tt,~5e the PQ &qver~;~mcnt. Utc jUrty oppot;ite does not break faith witb OM million En.s:li:sh·speak· ing Canadians.

Se•tiiiOII. Me~ Flc:ar, hear!

Mr. Urae Nrstro. (Vol"ktoo-MthlUt): Mt. Speak«. I wlih to say a few l't'Ords ton.iabt :•b<.J1.1t t he very bb.tOI'k resolution before the House. On tbe afteri)C)O(I or NO\•embct 3 when that very h.ittorlc accord was anon~, two fetlin&s bil me all Qr a Jadden. ODe was tbnt I tbousJat t he Cn.n.1dia.n poopk, oo one hand, ptobabl)' bC<lved $sigh of relief tbat the 2a:otd had been reached. but, oa tl'le other hund, there v.•a$ 001 any ceJc:bnuicm. In addition to the fttt-S'UWdi!lg~o::xual equ:•l· ity dause not being tbete-. t~ a boriginal people of this country had b«n kft OUt a.nd the pr<wince of' Quebec • •all not a t isnaiOf)' to t he 11ooord.

f bad anotbct feel ing u ' 'ell. that the Carsadian peopJe wanted an .:nd tO c:onOict within Qtlr <li.Mtnlry. 1'1)ey h:1d th.: fecHnt that all qf a wdden tbcrc had boeo a .settlement with nine of the provinces. Howo.,ovtr, to real!)• i:tld tbe conffict in the country, somethin,g more bad to be dqne, We had toscttk wit& the aboriginal people of thiSo land and the people of Quebec.

Whn'l I look at ~ Con11tiunion, ( foci that it 11bould be I&

reOection ol tbc reality in a eountry. In oth« "'Otds.. it .should be a mirror of the courury. Wbcn we look at Canada. -we see a country t h::tt is. vt:ry C(lmple.x and extremely diverse. h i11 nqt u federation like tbeotbets.

There ate $()me feder:\1 $t:lltll wbi:rC-me»t or thi:-Stll.td art quj tc monolithic and it il relatively simple to devise a $)'$tem. Tbcre i:s good regional baJai)CC.. In our eou.ntry 'o\'C bave competing ro::alitie.s.. What ill real in one aru may not be in aootber. We ha,·e many communities •·hic:h are Vet)' different. Tbcre is a Sot of rcgiocalism ln this oounuy. as "-eU as the raetC'If" or duali ty. Sc.m~chqw in a Can.ad U.n Conlltitution all of these diffcrellc:et~ which make us so unique. and I maintain rnd:e USo so ticb, h.ave. to be recognized aM tt-flecttd.

I will de11l fi rst with reai.on<11li11m. The: provinces all difl'er ont< from the ocber. Saskatchewan diffe-rs from Alberta a.s New­fouDdl:u~ di.IYet$ fr(lm Pri~M:C Edward bbnd. We also hav'll' dil'f'ercncc.s •'ithi.n tbc prO\·inoes. We hii\'C dilrerent re:gion.s. I tbinl: ofd1e Peaoc: RNer counuy in Alberta whieb e.xtcnds into 8ridsll Col·umbia, Cape. 8rttofl whkil i~ difYae-nt from main· land Nqra $f;Otia. and tbc halian <X.Jmmunity in t lte city or Toronto and the Chi.nese community in tbc cit)' of Va noouvcr, •·bleb ate a.liO untq·ue. I t hinl: ar ;all the:\e dl((e~n«S in tern'llt of rqlonali.sm and cthr~ic ofiain in this ooun1ry l't'hicb m.ak~ Canada .so rich. All of these say "ety dcally, as the leader of

oot party s-aid tbi:s afternoon. that tbc nine Englisb·speaking ptovinoes an~ n()t monolithic. n u:y ll.n: diiYero::nt.

In the accord reached ()1'1 Novctnbcr 5 lhose diiTerenoc:s arc teOectcd in tctms of OalbJtity wi1h.in 1he Aooord. The diffcr­i:llot.S .are. reOected in tenus ol tbc amending formula which ueats every provil)(:c ;•s <:onMitut~ally equaL (t bu in t here as a .safetY·''ah-e an optin.a"((l;;t prqvision In t-J.se provi•~es ibould d~ide to gi\'e some of their po"'~f1 to the cent~l

gO\·crnm~t.

We have reflected i.n tbe &QQOIJ'd the Ctllli:lrinement of a multieultur;~li$m r.::ality • •bicb is important to many C.nadi· aM. We haw: eMbrined in tllc resc>ludon rlshts fot nun)' CarudianS, men., •·omen.. the bandi-capped, tbe 418«1.. and no di.sQ\mioatiQn oo the bil~b of colour, eth11ic origin and so on, Wt Its\'<: greater JIO"'Cr5 bein:J tr1ns!ernd to tl1e provin~ in terms ()( resouroei, wbicb is important to a provioce like mi!Jc aod to many otber proviQCt$.

We h:tve eqW~Jiuuion being <:Mhrit~e::d in the resolutl<ltl bcf()t"c o$. 'nl;~.t b in1p(M'Unt to ma.ny provillc:cs. pe.rtic.ulufy to Quebec. the Atlantic province.-~ a.nd Mnnitobl'l. These ar~ many tl1il!lg.1 tl~:~t are posith·t, 1t is a "try good bcsinni.ng, t1 w:ry big $1.cp fww;11rd in tilt: ~c.an·h to fit1d oursclvCii in tbis eounuy.

fn I& -.·ay. the nine EnAiiSb·speaking ptovinc:es bii!VC rwnd themsti\'CS. We ba''e ' ome te) tum:l with otu-sclva~, lt wok a loog lime to do that. but •'<: ba'-e an aCOI)f"d n<w.+ th:H &oes $

l<mg way i.n thut diro::cti<ln. A$ f 1Wid befOre, thk ooonuy is more tba.n just tommunitie$

and pt'~·inoc:s., more tbn ju!it tbe. s-um of all those parts put tO$.Clbcr. We are more than just reslon~li$m <lr east aDd west Jtnd ~o-entn.l C1nad.a. We have the unique' fa(;lor of duality in Canada. In fact. we have :l double- duaJit)'. We h3'f't tbe du.aJity ()f the. ptovinctll and of the aborigiMI Jlt(lilk or this <;)(Kintry wtw nre at the b.ase. of our Coflfcderatjon, the origi,~l

people of this oou.ntry w-ho c-annot bt forgotten. We oeecl a sped al a()()()td, entente ot arrangeroenl, whic:he\otJ .... -ord you want to use. with the aborigi..r,al people of t.hjs ooumry. We 111rc: off to a preH)' fair st~n with Section 24. lt &ocs tbe right wa)'. but it t~ only a start. Out jl0rty rcaJites tbi!J, Thill Ill ... by ··~ are tOO\'ing ~ mOOon t<l lnvoh'C the aboriginal poopk- in I he an)Cnding fotmula in to:rcm of thdr c<lt'l5enting to oonstitution· al change a.fTcctini them. We nali.tc that to gi'~ them tbc same rights in terms q( their needs as oc.her CanadiaM haw:·~ m~o~st ~eh ~;~; iS.:ttlcmo::nt or tlt-!Otiation that i:s .sliebtly d irrercnt ''ith 11.tcm than we have: • ·ltb the provioea~ per &e.

(Trorul.ntiMI Mr. SJJO:".!Ikec "-'C also have ano1her ~ry important d~Jity in

tb.is country of ours. Canad<ll. t.he f"rc:nch Canadians or Quebec~ n l·ery distillc:t Qoel;lec ~odety t hat is very different from that of o1hes pf(IVinc:d. f'oc ins:tance. t'o\'O l$nguages are spok(;lll in Q\lebtc, French a nd English. Tbe bistot)' of Q\leboc is aJw ~ry different a.s life the (acts of life. Tbete ~ :1 d il'ferc:nt civil code. :. diffetc:nt religion in the provinoc: of Quebec. Right aCJO!a t11-a oourttt)', administrati''<' ~~;nd Q()tllllitotional tltra •~.&e­nKnts differ front tllose found in Q~.Kbcc. The proposal tnade b)' the leader of my party, the hon. member fot Oshawa (Mr.

Nc:m:mbcr JO, 1,981 COMMONS DEBATES 13521

Hroodbcnt) i:s 001 only ;en eA"IeoPon ol ' h<11 t dual realjty in C:tmld.'l but. ll$ I liCe it, <Jn c~temioo tb<Jt i$ nCOC$S<Jry in ou.r counll")' . I lll'llntto wn&ratuJate our IC3det as wcll as the kadcr of the Prosre$i~ ConscrvatiYe Pat1y (Mr. Clart), wbo tried thi'(Kigb other meai\S to fiDd a solutioB ror tbe people of Quebec.

Ooality U ·ncct:SS3ry. Some things in tJ1e r•:sohujon are. most imptlftant to Quebec. I b:we aJready met~tioncd nuny of tbn;e that are importaJtt to aJlthe other pr~inccs of Canada. and the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau) ha.s alread)' agr'ccd in the re$()1ution. in See1jon 40, I klie~. to (lOitlpensatioo with regard t l) t:due..t.ion ilnd culiuf\1.1 mauer:s. I ~~~·~nt to c:ongr<Jtu· l:st~ th~ Prime Mini:Ster on :~oe<ptin,g to d<1 50 f()f the province of Qu~bec.. lt ill \'t:ry impl)rtlent for the ftt.'Ople or Qucb«. but we h:svt :lootbtr id~ and another propo$al h) put f()f""'llnf. T() my miDd. Mr. Spc:tker, duality ls ..ec•.'S.S:!r)' . Let us. l:c.:p In mind tlult tbete are oaly six millio" Qtlebeten In C.anada. six millk>n Q uebe«n in Nmth Amcriq~. lt b of the utm():St im!XIftance for tbe futli.re of our ooontr)' tbat the Constitutioa contain a provisioo ens.uritl8 the $tt'luit)' of franoophone~.

" """ fF.ngli$11j J think. Mr. Spe3ter, :1~ a Cant~.dian who con\d rrmn an En&li~h ·!ipeil l.:in& pr(lvinca:, that we 11lwuld look l'Cry l;Crio~ly :n the tpecifi~oflhe mot ioo mol~-d bv tl1e Uadcr o(the NI)P, fim of all, it deals with the lssut o/ natloo:tl unit)'. h S:l!fS tbtl t "We as Canadians in the "·est or in Ontario or in Atlantic Cal)o1da very mm::b want Quebec as part of oo.reountry'•.

All OO.t. Ment!J.tr: Right oo.

SoDif ho• . Members: Hel!l, hear!

(T'!IIf$/OtionJ

Mr. N,.stn:-: h is impemth-c tbat Can11cb in<;lude Q~bce. (E~tgllsiiJ I tbif1 k .,.."'1! ll3'i"t to d<> whatc::w.r we C:an C() make tbt: pc(lflle o( Quebec: (eel 11 p;.~ rl or llti$ COUJitt)' ~nd of tbi$ ConstitUtion. People also ••a.nt an end 10 conRkt in this oountry. They re:l li?.e that tbe oonnlct wiiJ continue 1.1ntiJ we rc:u:h a n:ulc• ment •·itb 01.1ebet: and witb the aboriginal poop}e of our land. We also realize tbtlt tbe Premier of Quebl.-c said bst AjM'II tbtu be: "''38 wiUi.nt tu trade: hil ''cto, i ( indeed iberc W\111 a l'etO, (qc an ~)pl-in&•<XJt formula t.hat would DOt per~alitt Quebec on c.xisting powers only: lkM oo additional pcW.~'!S but ()n cxis-ttng po~~t·ers ool)'.

I 1L':llll to t:lke tl look :11 wl•d hcr or nQt .,..c llhaukf liOCt:(ll lhe lr:irtd ot' deul that Wi$ offered b)' the P('(;mjer of Quebec. Firs:t of all. I want to ttJgue. that \\'C very seldom use h. If J ren\ICmbcr OOf~tJy, ovc:-r the J:lllt 114 yc:1.rs o( our bi.stCK)' tllere have been onJy about two oc~sioos wb~'(l the pr~·inoes agttcd to give some of tbtir J)()'loo~rS to Oua .... ·s. By tlt-t. way, the Qptin g •OIIt sno\•4ion a pp tin only if ll CQI\S1itutional llmendmc:nt <krogate5 or takes awa)' fr"m eldsti.n,g JXI'Il'el'$. That is all it is. We have had o1tly t.,..o eumples of that i" tbe ki:u<lt'y of o~~-t

Tit~ Ccnstittm'on coudtry. One wa.s foe unemployment ins.u1ance: Of•~ w:u f~'lr pcn$ion legislation.

In the ClUe of ~ntion.~. Quebec wanted to opt wt. T~ 80\'eratncnt of l..e:sttr P~:ar.st~n ~id th1ct it will .set up an adminisuative artangtmem . .. You Clln ba''e tlle Quebec pen­sion pl~tl aM ....-c will ba''C tbe Canacb P.:Mion Man". As a ttPJII, we bn,·e a nillional pcn.sM>n pl~~on, ;.nd Quebec. did not have veto powet to stop the pension plan for all. M)' point is that it • ·ill hltppt:n \'ety .seldom, Mr. ·Spe:lktr. h will nc>t happen C\'ef). ten OI 0ftccn year:s bul \'Cf)' Kklom indeed,

The ~>tOOnd point that I shotlJd like 1.:1 make is that (or it to happen at all, .seven provjn.oc:s bn,·e to p..grce t<> tfan.s!er .sQme of their power ot jurisdiccion to Ottsw.·a. If that happens-and Ottawa, of cour$e, as to a.tv~ 11.S •·ell-then it meW be f<K a prett)' good c:au.se.. or a pre~ty just cauS~:, and for a pretly l~npor1.tm ~use il'l ten.u orthis counu)'.

The otbc:r point 1 want 10 make i ~ thllt n(IC all opting out tbat would occur will in''0111e COt'llpcnsation. There may be JQme C~ping 001 t.hat wiiJ ju.,c inval've some intxptnt i\'t arrangement.s in terms of lru.mfer of juri511it:tioo ffom ooe area to tbe other. Tbcrt ma)' be 500\IC opting out where indeed tbe provtnc.:ell by opting out would c.'(lntinue to kec::-p :l 1()1; more moDe)' thao b)' transfCfrina their IX"''et to ()ttawu. For exam4

!)&e. If 2 province: wanted to trsnsfer its rc.sour<:es to Ottawa, it would ~e ~lot or revenue. Uy lct:cping the- n:~UI'OC$.. it w()Uld keep tbe revenue bot it III'OOld re<:ei~ oo oompens.atjon. Jt ,.,'OUJd oot Jooe. anything. Th«e· \\>'Otikl be I)O!bing to oompen· Silte it for. l m1ckt: the pOint that it •·oo.ld h2P9en very iieldom iodtcd. Mr. Speat.er.

Tbe s.ccoM an~·.l J want to look at ls tbc. cost oJ the compeMation i'mendmc::nt of tbc:· Leader of the NDP. If you look at it. no cost ~o tbe taxpt)'Ct of this oountry is in\'Olved. If indce:d Quebee opted out or liOme amendment that wok :aw:ly fr0n1 its ~ts.iog ~·er.s. it would not 'ost the QC her taxpa)'er.s. of tbill country. Otber PfO\'inocs woutd not bave to pay any· tbing to the- Prc:winte ol Qcu:bee. TMte 'A'OUid not be. any special tax wbat&OC'\'Cr. On ooe band. it W\IUkJ oot 001>t as <11 penny. On the Olbet hand. the ehiztns of tbe provin~. of Qu~:bee would nqt be dc)uble taxtd lM.'C:liiSe ! l(lw under the amending: form~tla Quebec coukl opt out, Hq.,.·cver, it could invol\'(: a tot o( mooey. Quebeters would stiJJ pay it1to tbe n<~tional tfell:sury ror .,,tiona.l proSI'!llmll a nd pay an extra Ulx into their own ti'Casu.ry in their own provinoc for •heir own prO&r:lmS. J m:tintain if that ew-r b:lppencd. Mr. Speaker, :lJiy fc<kri1 g<Y~'Crllmen t •·~X• ld pr<Mmbly m:1kt: an l!ldmink1r,.th·~: arrangement an)""'ay, I m11intain lbut frQm the point of vie,.. or cwt it i11 :t very set~s.i blc idea indeed.

I •-ant to look 011 the qucllti(ln of vtt(l that I pn:viQI.lSiy mtntioi!od. The Prtmier ol Quebec has offered 10 wde 3""'3)' hi~ veto. I think (()!- tJK oth« prO\'i.ncts ita thill country this is probably a very ,;ood idttc. I sb;•JJ remind the HQ~JSI: tb;ct Quebec governmetlt blwe traditiooall)' wanted a l'CIO.

The Prime Mlni~h:r u.ntfl tJuee wtt:ks :1@0 W:l.nted Ontario and Quebec to ba''t: tbe right o( vctc>. I lul\' t had mixed ftdi1~'1 t~.bout that. I thousht tbat becau.sc Quebec is different it PClOikd ;Jn a~t~ur.~ncc that 161 existiog power~ Wl)uld Mt be

1]522 COMMONS DUIIATES NO\·c:mbcr30, l98 L

7hf! ColutllliliOJI ctodcd. h nec<kd an a.s:'lur:wee t1111 tbt frt'nch language .,.·ould be procech:d, On the other lulnd. 1 am (lot $ure it n~d a \'Cto to 6top c.bange.s i.n f~ight rates.. transpottltion ~ystcnu.. munkipcllafraitl :aod tbi~ that rQ!Iy hJid nothing t(> d•> with wtwt it needed <IS a ~ollccti \'ily to~u.rvive.

h i ~ :1 p:nnt tha1 wos made on CTV's .. Question Period" b~· tlle Pren1ier of Quebec yesterd::.y wbcn he said that Quebec hu bc01 ri8htJ}' cri tici~;JOCI Qvc:r tbe yqrs tor 'o'q;nting to \'<IQ Qr blo.;k 01ny com.titutional change. U it did have a '~to. it could blocl: national progr:-uns, for uamph:. th:H :Ire rM;:i:ded by tMs COI.Inlry. ibae WUid ;&be,) be 11 NO.dblodt; in terms o( biQCking s.omc:lhi.ng tbat was not DCcdcd for Quebec but tbat was ~·ital for otber ptO\•incd in C)IU" confederation. In ~rrect. it could boW up otb« provin<:tc::S in tern1S of S1opping tbc C\'Oluti<m of CQilStitUtiooal chiluge ia this COuntry. f•lf' tilt' Othl'1' p:ovi.nctS tn find tb;~: k;nd q( a oomprom.i:se i$ a aood th\og, ;~~nd it is good lllit .,.,'<can stiiJ have ronstitutiooal change. But if tbat oehanac \I.'Ctc to burt the peop.l~ of Quebec and demgate frml'l the PQWert i1 now h01s. t b~- sta ll.!~ quo it now has. not SQmetbin,s e:<tra in the future~ lhen the people of Quebec. thtough the NatiooaJ Asstmbl)', cou Id upt Out witbmll bdng p:n :t.lh•.bd.

Th.:n is all we :sre-:u!king r()c', Mr. Spt'o~k·er. Wt: 2rtc asking. ror tht: ptQie:ct_ion Q( the powet$ an<.l the wropetei)C(: of the PrO\•inoe ol Quebec that .:xjsts risht oov.• in the Constitution of Canad3. W~ ate. oot asking for anytJ•lng mc)fi:~

I slwuld hkc to sa)' one "'Wd about the Coi\1-CrYo'lliV'O amend· n1cnt. Mr. Speak~r. My leader has off«cd some of our c:on· oerns :.bout it. and what! it mll)' mean to t~:atic:>n~l progr.tnu in th.is c:ottntl)'• I want to add dtat when dte accord w<~:s :signed by the nine premicn of t he otbcr ptO\'inoe:s. aU nine said that they ""nted t(t agrl!>t to tbe o'l roending rwmull) that we bJw~ and, tbat they wanted tbc opting tbat ""'C bll\'t bu.t that they did not rc3Uy require tlw compe:nf;lltiol'l clause to re:n1ail'l. 011 the other band, Quebt.: Sl:lid t_but i ~ requi.rcd tlae ~;umJl',"fflS:ati_qn cl3uile.

I undtr$-t.1nd t he pr-emiers till \'I: uid to the-Prime Mlnb-!tr, "You have a tremendous amount of flc:~i bili ty and lt:ewuy t() try and settl-e witJ• tl~ pro...-it1ce or Quebec. .. All this pstt)' is sayin& is ~hut iJ by offerins tb;at ~;1.-aulle, th1tt will :ec.ule 'tlo'ilb the ptovinoe of Quebec. then it is worthwhile for the unit)' of I~ l'(luntry and il is wortbwhil.:-ir it will end the oontlict in the 1:\lUotry lhnt is .sidellin:J. people ~nd muking them disgusted " 'i t.h an tbc: fightinsand turmoil that is ptts.tnt today.

I w:ant to urge the Prime Miniflcr or C'an:acb 11.1MI t he minister!! in ebarge to take a .serious look. at th.-e <lmcndment "''C propose. If tbe)' C3nnot 3.8tcC to il d1is time, then. as I .te~gge~tc:d th_i~ :artcr.w.Xln .• pc:rhllp:s it onuld bt:· in,;c:rttd in d1e re..olulion, in SoctiOQ 38(1) of the ameodlni formul11 which c~nrems thc. Senate and tbt -House of Commons of Canada. If we CC)II.Id put I hi'$ in the: n:ooluti<:~n we-could deal with it here 11nd tbct'l t he Senate ooold deal with i1. The ~t~ttioru~l in.stitu• tions YlOU!d 113\'e dealt "'' itb it saying t.h3t they "''Stll a oon1pen· , t~.,tjon amc..dmc:nt. th~:n l.ol!er i.n 1h~ pr<k.'t•:u t.be provinces "'Otdd luwe to tC$pond. JJ tbey &ltoold rupond, then I think we

"''ill have gone .a Ion& "''<~Y tQ..-<1;rd m.:o:ting the ()QilCCtM of tbe pf'(WiDCe of Quebec •

I jU$t wan I t<.t n::Oct:t l)n one or two (l(!ter thit1gs about tbe •·hole pi'()«:$$ that o.IJ of~ h~.&ve gone thrQuS,h. fn m..any •·:~y~. lb.: process was t)'picstly Canadian. We b.we stumbled to <l

oonclut~ion. (If' a ~ua.~i·OOBCh•sioo. The. process "'ill noc be. complete, of ooor.lioe, ontil we deal with the Qtaebcc iS~tue 3nd the issue of the aborigi~1 people. bot we ha~'t come a kmg "''.11) ' ·

ff ... -c learDed anything rcom tbe pt~. it is th~t .,.,.e ,t;hQuld ha,-t invoh-ed more people. ftOitl the. beginni.ng. We sbollld bave in,•olvcd not. j1u .1 mcmbcn of the .@.ovcr.nrntil l and tbe oppo:~itloo psrties in the House and in eom.miuoc: bu.t we. $h.(lu!d alw h;tve invulvcd m.:mbcts of tbc k•isla.turc:s of tbe prollinecs. I rc:me:mbcr spealtine oo tbi:s subj.:ct i_n Octobc:r ·and J.u8g.tSting t.:a the 80\'Ctnment th3t we sbould have ioV13ll'ed member$ or the SO~mmctll :t.nd nlC"IIlbcr$ of tbe oppositiotl Of the 1en provinoes, th~l we $hot.~ld ~ve i.n\VIved the :.b<lri.g.ina.l ~ or this country. that we should ha~ ir:woh·cd tbe Yllkon and Nonhwe:<t i crrito.ries tlnd, rinalty, that >A'e should 1)0( leave the Coostitution primarily ~o I I men 10 ~;ettle b1:hind closed dOOfs but we should have i.n,'Otved tile .,..omen and women's OI'Jl.l,niuui<.lfl.¥ o( Canacb.

Had we don-e this. we woukl ha''e had a k>t k$S 3gony, lcu d!Y'iiiwness, kss pain :snd OOilOict over the rooner, I do not beli<eve tbat a Coi\.S$ill.ltion hummcred: out by 11 delept.ions getting togec.bcr. making deal after dcnJ. &ettiog into llll t ind:s. or ()ption.t wbcrc rerb.io rigbcs arc: ll'adcd fot utbc:r tigbts, cxnain powers cnuted !Of other power:~, ill the ~rcct p i'OCC$S, but we 'tlo'Crt all pan of that ptc>oess, Mr. Speaker. Wbct~ we gel le> lltagc two of Cons.titut.iol'l buildjng in this

country. I hope that we wi:IJ iovob-c m9r-= poc)J>II:·, that wUJ c:OI\'Iult m<Me people. that we "''ill get tbc: aborigin;ll pcc.lflk i.nl"Oived in il mcuntngfnl way tU di$CU.SS wh.at their rights should be-. tbat we will make .wre >Aoc k.n<.~w wl~t the pcopk or Quell«: w:mt to do and what kiad of tneasureSo •~ey ..... , nl in t.bc Coosti tutioo of Cantu!u ;~nd t l);lt (inuJty, onre at1d for all. 11-e wiU mt~.ke Ca!ll1da a ttuly fodcl'\11 country in t~:nns uf •Jur n.otljQn<~l im)titu ttl>ns.

A Cborter or Ri&hl$ nnd t'recd<Jm~ ill ~nsbrincd i.- the Corm itutioo but the filial ar-bitrator "''iJI be 1bc lc&it•l <~~tur.::. and Parti.1menc Qn t.be (ltle haOO ot the Supreme Coon of Canada onlhe otl.cr band. 8"' d•e Supn::.mc C.)urt is appoitll· nJ by the. Prln~t> Minister of this QOOOH)' <t:nd judge~ :are appointed by the federnl AO~«tunent without ll.ll)' input "''bat· SQC~'« from the provinces. Yet, tbc Sup1i:me ooutt is tJte refer« in federa.l·pi\'Wincial eonOim .

l11 fi:dl"fil.ti()nS su<oh as the United States.. S.,.·it~crlar_~d and others. in c;a.~eo~ wher-= national lnstilutioM affe:(t tbe juris.dio­tion of tbc provinoe:s aOO tbc l~derlll g<YoocrnoM:t'H. OOc.h the prtWir•otS and the federsl government m\.lst b~tve a :~ay. Until "''1: la;~ve t h<tt n::flc:Clion of tbc regions in the centre. we are goiog to ha,•e slrains i.n th i~ eQnreder:stil'"· .,.-c arc g<~i.n.g. to have thing.i that pull us apart io~te~~d of brinsina u$ t(ISt:tl.u::r. We ure going 10 113\•e-. v eatcr aDd gtC'3ter institutjo!lllliline. of sometbing ••bich I W !KM like. whkh i,:, t1 fo.<detaJ· pt<n·incial

Nowu.bct 10. 1911 COlolMONS DEMTES 1))2)

eonftrt:nce ud allt.he po'll>~r that et h;u a•uheted 10 t!Mir. The pl'(.mierll' oonfere~ aod tlle tabind mini~lers' ootl(erencu aJe IIOCI'Vil\f, &reli t er aDd J rcatu powe.r becii~»C~Uf a ''llc:uum in 011r j)'l-leln . There JU tiO places in our oounuy where the tta)on~ ~~~ ~~ be' reOe;;~cd equ:1ll)', • ·htre ti1C1 vok-: o( the region c:nn be ronte1ccf and heard p.nd fdt in terms or plt'A'Cf.

Bccllu~e or t.ht lacl. of this po&Sibility. the ptovinQnl PremkN and e~biMt ministc:f1; b«o'"oe the apotape:rsom for rtliO"'Idm i11 CaMda. I do oot bb.ow them any more tlu.n I bbJnc nwmbc~ of tb.! House.. I blame tk bet ol 1 tnly (cdenlt,ccm tMt n:nea... on lite GOII' ha~. "'rep by p:ll'"" btit liCit ~ tlilt IM.ad, .. up bf rqjoe « rep by pn;rriiiC'&.. I t~l:~t_k .c need llotll iftllil cauatry k IIOsta_y' ltf:dhct.

My nul commettts are a00.1 tbis imdt•tioft hsdf. Mr. Speaker. ltbink •~ need a reaUy kriow rt(onn h1 hrliamecnl. I thcnl: ..-c have to make tbc mc:ll)ber or hrliamc.nt a l~ator • ·ilh tome r~l pov.u ud real dwt O'~Cf .,. Ut I' ballfldlittJ in Ulc QOiU'Itry. All too often pariiamt-'tarill .. Ot'&l notbin,a mote th~An 11 n1bber atamp for tbe exo;ulh~ Qf c.l!fnc:t In Cllll.lda. I cllink th:.t b dead wtong. I thi11k "''e abould be: i lfcn,cheninJ the l'l.l"''tr bf eommiH«"S :and a.h·ina Mcml)ars oF P11rlio.mcnt• loc more p_)wer and a say.

I ._,Ill julit use one e.umple or tbb. Mr ~hr, In 1hc U11lted Stllle!l the President~_,. only ftll:lmi~tate Surrcmc Court j.J,tlcc& but the Sell.ar.c. •IIKh n:i'lcl:bl the IM:IId. lrwl 10 tppRI'W tho6e AOMi.MtioM. Ut the jlldKWry Ollnfllltt«

.U liloa. t\t r ..JM.r. ()o )'OU: WUI OW Scft:.IIC: tO ptd tltml!

M r . N)'iol.n'lal: We ea.uot haw o.r St.utc: pert tlttm bcuu~ oor Sc:tlite ~ appoiotcd solely by the (rdc.nl l<ft'C:rn­mc:nl. 1 t ~ tiOI relket tbc re,g.ions. f«kraJiJn• Of the polit ieal rcllhty !hat i$ OUt tbetc il) the country. Thc:IIC thi!IJPI hn\•e 10 diiU\JI.CI, Mr. Spc:a,kcr.

An.atlu: r thin.& U that the: Ptlmc. Mlnlhtcr ll.!)fll)int$ 1111 umbl.lt~~udon. Perhaps "''C should loot rCKW\\rtlto ll lime when the Prime Minister would tiOtttjnatc atl'lbwacl(ltS.. and the 6Atcrm~ l AO'uil'$ Committee olthc II<Nllf or 0Knnl00$, rerre· lCintlnlthe people or the <lOO.ntry, oould ehbc:r a«~ or 1'\;je:ct the 110fftl113tiom..

M1-n:y of ou.t CC'tl.tral instit•tions. st~tb at tk Pri~~te Mifti:s.. kf'• ofl'l« tlld 1be PriyY Cottocil otr'-«. have lOO ...-:lk powu. Tklt • aa MllltMMe disk:lrtioa ol tile 4cmuc'rat.e t)'ttonn aM it • ~pant 10 the idea of~ 1 am 110( rtlkon.ifiC ~ tll!)' tndividaal here. We as CaAidia.M ht..e altov.·t'd c.hi:s fW"CUCC 1.0 ~ (JII'Cf 1be )Ut$. lttlmk 'he time hu come 10 demoert~lze this place. Tbc time has eome to aive members ot hrh.amttll re31 po-Aotr alt lesUiaton, nOI.JIUI rubb« Jtampl ror an uceuti\•c:. The time ba& come (Of" t.1J to m~~l:e Mire: • ·e rockrali r.o our lnstitutjons and. if • ·e arc to keel' the Stnatt, eo mako Jute h Ill fedemlimd. Othe:n•dse. l<t u• nbohd1 it. Wt hiiV~ IC~ fcdcrnlizc tbc Supreme: Ct>ul1 or this CQUfllr)' and many or the olbc:t fedctal institutloos. and If "''C do tb:u. I am JIUC tbat thl: country will rem:1in strvnl a11d h:1ppy (Qrc'lt:r.

• l~llot

For 11 C(H.ttltt)' to Jlo1,...WC. Its tonstltution must R:Oeo;-1 tht.: reality of the country. Our reality u.s .a ~ountt)' is ~>n~ ~>r dh·.ersit)'. o11e or resloo~tll,m, one al pr<Winces aDd one o( duafjty witb o~o~r 1.1bvri!lln~ l pet~pl l:':l and lbe people of the F~n<:b lun&~U~&e Qr the peopJc o( Quebec ..

So•e •cm. Mt.-.btn: Uqr, heat!

(1h:wlatl.olrl Mt. CfnW La.Ud (htUa..-tary Set:ntary to ~1i•kltr ol ~. T .... ,_.. eo..tr")c; Mr. Spcdcf. ia tU: b&ori· Q) ckblte whdc .natb a turei• poUu. ift tJtc dc:u~QS~mcal of CaNcb ·, polmeal tttvet•rc. 1 Utoutd lite. or coww. ro aD~~· pat•llte the Pri.nc- M1•161Ct (~h. Trudeu) c... IUs pt:rkWI"­ance and cku~t'lftiNtion i• dc:llillc with tbc CXla>Lituliollal i:u~uc. and ~pccially on Ills •I'Mkl'lllndin& ~nd wi:Uin.g..cs.. tO eomprocn.ist. u dem« .. trat«< d"rina thc::k· past wecb. Earlier. 1 he.lud the pre\•loUJ 11pc:ab r, mycolkague tht-hoo, memberl'ut Yorlaon·Mclvine (Mr. N,·,uom) making all kinds or 5U,Stc'J~ tions at this late 3ta,e In thc:dc!Nue. lf he hlld hi ~ way. tho:-dcbllt~ wuuld h3 \'C 10 ~toll ull over •Juin, A« urdin,ito hi m, \>ctori&hl¥ "hc>uld be gi..-t:ct to C\'tty sin~lt Canadian.

I believe • .,.ith Ute Pnmc Minid.:r, that we ouut teadt a ckcisioo. and the dct:b:IOt'l '"""' be mJde th.is • ·cek. l am 'bd to sec tlac pank:t In tltu tloaw: ~w: at ka$t aarced I~> ftnotU1 CGd tbi$ t.na I!Uft l,a cllc co-titutional dektc. 1 sllou.W a.ho lib eo d11uk •1 colk!lc~ the ~f'lfli:Mer J J~ (Mr • Cb.rh:im). rot dtc pendtcac.'& aM 6ncnNmtioa lilt lw sltoloa la de:ati_, ..-ith lhU tUUU', •iMdt ft'ptcseft::S a ma.jof .-rp ia tbt prooc:!ilS of c:oo~hutionll rc(onn, All tht poiats raised by tbe pttVi01.15 5peal:er can probt.bty be deaJt w:ith at a &lo1~ q-ucnt suce.

Mr. Spcaku. puiiC.WII&II)', I am ~~ry proud 10 be Jl(CKJII onoc: more in thi& 1-lQII.,e. IU ~~~h;:r uthinc moment in C.muJiq,n bit;tory ti.I'IJ IQ be 11Ktodatc4 whh the ptcsent govc.mme.nl • ·hGI'I tbi" l-JI)Iuc ,·otcll oo d1c ntotlon to Canadiuit.e the- IJrith1h N<Wth Antetlca Atl after 11 4 )'C:IHii, to pJo.,.ide for an anw:od· In& (o)fmula "''C have been seck:in&tbn:Ngl'lout lhat pctiod. and to iacof1,'10titc a elutrtu ol riahu •ctd frec:do.nl to proeM. all Ca.tu:diaM. Mr. :Spc11hr, •• tbc f!Ublidt~ eampa.ip that baf bettl coioc on foe WIOC'Ithl le Qa5ebrc. we haw: been IOW t~t ou.r cor»lk•t'onal raohttiorl was timed at ~ Quebcro:cn or lllc:ir nzhu. Scare t..ecia .-ere asc:d in a ~ ol nM't. ckamuic C'IOmll)t~ah Wdl, I milt'• RY that ~ the Ch.utct- ol Ripu and the allddmmt~ bcittt comidcred in this R:MIItJtio• do attytlliac;. they &ake ••·•y n&}lts rrom an tcWerrtm~u aAd rcdinribute tb05e ri1h1.1 •mons all Cl!lnad~tiS liO tbs.t tbc:)' wiiJ be be1ter protmt!CI. In f•ct. btwh IC'\>ek or govc111ment ba,·c: rdlnqui5bcd son.c tli-hli (()I the bcnrfit of the indwid:u.u l, Mr. Spc:nkcr.

Tbi.s is not the rirllt time $ince I C<~~mc to this Hou$e thll l I ha\'C been he~ a tau hi8tOf1Cal momrnl ~~.~eh a~ th.i$. I w;u !~eft. Mr. Speaker, duri"'- the Ou1 d~Wtc. I was also ouuide tbi1

llS2.; COMMONS DEBATES

Tit~ Coffstlu~tlt.HI

buildii:1J •dM:n the Maple Leaf Wll~ finally r:~:ised (or tlle fin;t time on the Pe.1oe TQ'>l·er. I was in thi~ Hoost •·ben member$ .u,erccd uruni111<~•1~1 )' that the Caoadiart nag bad its plttce Qn

)VUt .. igbt. Mr. Speak«. I wa~ also in thi~ House- wben "''t adopted the mcu;ic and tben tbc lyricS' or 0 Canada as oot rtlllion;al antbt:m, n.nd we ~pontancousl)' sang 0 Canad.1 in this House. with (~IY()ur ;11)11 emQtioo. Tbc.tdore.. it is with C\'<:ll ctcatet ptidc that today I :.m t:~,k ing part in th is: historical debate oo the ron:Sti tutlonal n!S()Iulioo. whi~:b, I realiu·. h; not perf~. The bon. membet for Yorkt<ln· Mdville, in f11et. nil hon. members may find tbcrt are shortOO<tning~ a.nd that some impt"O'f'Cmenl.s and c:banges are dcsitable. but tbe fact rema.in~ th~t t]lis: ~lutioo is the closest we can get to a Canadian ctJn::u:I)W.'- nDd the dosest to wbat our felkl"'' citizens "''ant to s~ at this time in thcir constitution, 0\'tr wbicb they will have full jul'l!ldicti<Ml on~:e tbe British Parli.amcot bas agreed to this Lut cons.itudo.uJ r\.1'fe$cn t<&~i..,n by 1he P;nliam<:nt of Canadu.

Of .:our :l(l, e •:ef)'Wie h<:re rqrets tltal 1be Govemmcm of Qu.ebet- d id IM.)I c:.h~ to ~ontinue its in-'Qivemcnt in !he p~ttridirn1 prOCtU;, ~ proc;c:ss iljmcd <H 11U't:f1glbcnin_g C.mlidil'$ poUtk:aJ JUuehtre and n<)(h.ing elilt:, n.nd we h;ld hOped, On -all sides of tbe HouSIC I a m sure. to r«el\•~:. befOfe Lbe. end ilof tbe debate: any soggestioM ot alttrfl3tivc. ot cort1pt0m.ist:~ lltu would be ac:c:eptabk. lo all ronocrn«<. In fact. tbe re8011utioo <~«$ include e<:r1ain provisions that "''OOJd be fa\:OUtable to a c:omprC)misc wlgtion. We le-ft room for oompromisc but Qut"bi!c hu refus-ed to thJnge iis ~it ion.

Mr. Spal:cr, for the moment I do not intend to anal)U the mC)tive3 or the Quebec g<M:rnment, the Levesquc go~mmcnt. tO ito(llate Qutboc, cwen 1hwah J know "''NU t he)' are. And J emplusi7.t: t hat it ~~ tbe l.cve:sque am·crnment and ltCX 1.he Quebec pooptc whleb ha.s l$101atc:d tllc provin~ $ince-t he la.-\t lirst minister's tonferenct . while .,..'t have s~n wh.u I <:Ouill<kr excepti:onal efforu oo tbe pan of tbc t1lne other preinkrs as wd l as tbc R~IH Hon. Prime Minis.tcr of C.a.Mda eo seck­and find- grounds of U.Jro<:mcnt and c.:ompromise solutions.

Mr. Spea.ker. in ~·itw uf tbc- n;lliooal c:oMemus w_hic.ll is booom.i.ng in('teaJlingly tvid~ut am1.mg tbe public, I ~icv~ as I .said eu l.iet, tbat we caruiOl wsit fore,-c:r :i.ud that h ..-vokl be ine~poosibk fot tlS to 'wtsh to start the entUe. De@'Otiatjoo pi'QI.~ tall over aeaj n. cspeciaUy in view of sotl\e of tbe prOYUklO'•s eontilined in the resolution. lDCiuding that undet whicfl t~ Q uebec ~·eromcot t;~~n mate a ''Oh~ntary commit· rnM.t eot1ocrnJng the lingublic ~taun. jusi as Ontario miaht C\'CI'I!UaiJy do with resp:ct to Section IJJ Qf tbc British Nortb ,\merica Act by inSiitution.31izing bilingnli$01 in t-he Lqisla· •ive Assembly ol Ontario :u we-ll :u in tJ•e court;$ or th:. t prQviiKc. : •. ~ mo:s-t rrancopbones in Canada. a~td not o11l)' those ouuadt Q uebec. woukl likc..

Mr. Spe.1ker. the feeling,; or an iodlvldu.al are often Kknti· t'itd with bis c.:barac:tc-.r or with cortditions wbic:b have

lnOueneed bis life. h is in this cotucxt tbat I .,.,'Ould lit e to e~prti.<l wUt I f~l today. Durinp, the Se«~nd Wc>rld W01r, forty )'eats ago. Mt. Spea.ker, I joined the OtnadiJ~n 01ir (Qt~:e a.t a time wbe.n it "''as DOt eaS)' fOf a uoilinau<tl frllnci,)J'Ilonc tc.> get along in a unilingual sngloph.<Jnc air fo~and the:-Minis.. tcr of N:ui<lt'lal Oefct~oe (Mr. lamontagne) c:<an oonlirm thi:s­ttl'ld at a time when ~o!f)'Of'le will ft!rct that our two major ethnic e;roups, did oot undcrilfand oeh other as well a.~ d1ey do tod:\y.

• (~ll!l)

lE"glishJ I wam to $!1Y a few words i.n engllsb at tlliS tin)C and t<t

r~t t hat it Wll.$ (101 ~sy, nc:iihct A I a (ew thou~nd (oc:t in the air nor on !he ground. (Of a unilingu-al. Frcncb-spcakint membet of tbc RO)':II Canadian Air Fare~:. t<> manage undtt the $f$lem, There were many ()l h~r~ lik_e me w}lo C<ame and joined tbc rorccs and got to like this country. I do oot want to rthMb the varioul situatioos in wbkh we found outlleh--a in thOKdays.

Ho-...·tver. just liS a hint ta tbo!>e who ""'ere not lbcre, to d.ose wh() sometimes question $C)n)C or our reprcst:ntatiOms, let me gi''C dtem -an example. I "''aS one or a group of about 25 franoophones fron1 Queb!c who " 'Crt s-t'ltiollcd in Souri~ MiJ.ni t~. and wbo htuS w Bl> (m :strike to win the righl to s.pcat French in our airnlen·s. canteen, Do hon. members koow the soluti(ln that .... ':\s found to th:Jl JWOblcm'! We were nl<Wed to TOfonto IQ lc,1.rn Enzli:sh. Howt"-er, l.l ll lil;tl d.i.d no' imprc$$ me. I rose to tbe ~ballenge. I ob(aiJtcd nl)' pilot's wings 'olo'ilh the rank of p•il« alflotr Otlt at a g.rad·uatio•• cottr.~e of apprQxi· matel)' lS mc:o or (}le RAF, 2S roco <JI t he RNZAF rrvm New Zealand. 25 men of the Royal Ca1l8dian Air foc~e. men from Uu~do Qucbc.:c, and one antlingu:•l fr:mcophune. I Suecetdcd not onl)' in gaining my wi.nss in the :air f<Kce.. but I 11l'SO Sot tq tile my oountcy. I bci::lme more proud to be a C;lnadi:ln, whic.h l a m trying 10 Wmmuni~".ltO:.. a1Mi • ·bieh I bave bctn trying to OCHI'U1lunicat.::. to rny ct.ildt i:tl a.tld my friends t vcr sioc-e. (Tron.~laiic.-. 1

Mr. Spcukcr. during these difficuh war )'CUS "''ben tbc diaiOf:ue was 001 "''hat it is today, 1 di$c;x:rvercd !hat tn)' bean W U$ bigger than m)~cl(, my family, my city qr my province:: . IIIOd 11\al it W"S M big A~ 1hi$ Vll$t O()Unt ry Qf Can~da with aiJ iu dHfeti:n.:tl a nd various el!!1nents. Tltroughoot the years. Mr. Spea.l:.c:r, I have round tl13t my ftcfings (<W tbis oountl)' have. beoo.1'e t V('n strong«, alld this i.i probabl)' wby I finall)' cllosc to speOO 20 ye-ars of my me in politi<;S.. in this Hoose. "''bcre I have contino«f, with the confideDCe Qf n1y I:OMtilu· cnt~. (0 ckfencl the principle$ to whi~:h I bad commiucd my:;df. the nwin one \lcins my <:mmtry.

Mr. Spca~er, •in~-e I ..-·:~s dectl:d tO thU Hou.ie~ I l1:we al..-•:~ys prOtn.ottd that kind at Ca•.adia.B natioo:dism, while ro!lnalni.rlg. ('O(lU'ltittcd to my prO\•inoe and m)' ~te-a. of course. I M~ al\\'llYS be«! outgoing. and my colleagues will vouch for it. unlike some ol my fellow Qucbcrers wbo fed isolated,

COMMOI<S DEBATES

~·~• and e1wlout. 3.nd w·ho adl'Oeatt the bn•ak•IJP oltbi$ C.nada of oon&. Onee. Mr. Speaker. as c.n be conMrml:ld by my colltl.ltlCS bue. including tbe bolt. mc:mber rrom Nova Scotiu, I propot;cd that compuiSOf)' trtinint be PM'Mcd lot youns C.nndin ns 50 chat they get to know caelt other bcucr, le~~ rn both omci3lla.nguagcs, aoquire iOmC IICtlllC O( dlseiptlne and vl-i• their country. I felt this would bcl.p chen'l gel to­Jtllwr, ltutcrnixo and under.s:t.and one BJlother, For Cl number o1 yun I h;~,vc abo bc<:n- very aaivc in f'~nch·s~tin.g parUII.IUCIUir)' ll(l50Cbtio"""- botb in Caudoa •ftll abtoilld. ud OM oltk dirtntnca between m)'<ldf a!MI my colka.auo from lllc Quebec N:atiotul &Kmbly is the' tht1bl fA •) .aiocl tn mpcct ollup •cc- and eult!Ut'.

I I'CICOpbc. the nMita1 ~Wtt)' tlw Qucboc pem. ment alld tbc Natiooal As:sem.bl)• hue for the ••rue~t bf1Buagc in Qvebcc. bat I bave ah•l)'S tnaiota.iJICd lllaL my owtHful)', lit • Mcmbf'l of l)llrfiameat. "'-Oif not to kollle Quellce twt 1'8thec 10 (OtOICr, flf dC""elOflfllCJII lhroush the promo4iOil (t( the F'rc:..eh lll f\iiU£<1 11nd culture throughout CaDada. ud tvctl Nor1b Amcrtc11.. I con~idct m)'tld( u one of tbe m11ny f'renc h Ctnadi· am rrotn Queboee ~·ho ~h.:uc n $pedal O(lnl.'ll:m for ltrcnc:h· ~~kJnt Clll\adi:lnS ill u.e niM (llhcr pnwincc.., llllll "'Y g.oul, my uhitnltc desirt 1$ t~l ooe day, thb coul'ltt)' ll'lll}' bt: still ~uer Wenlll'icd with its cuJu11al du:tllly. I III'Mkt.;.t~lld tlwt aomc fHnch-•pea klq Cuadia• <MI!Uidc Quc.bcc l'lu 'J be impatlctU, So were we •t OOC tilDe. l a,t lklh 10 ltvSt lrt, CO kt Id ao ...,,.,,. thif rnt ~Jc. and we -'• ccruinly C~M~t!HC: 10 Mpp;wtctlonn.

Mr. Spc&ter. thoie who would now tun~ ()IK:b« i11l0 • wttur•l &;hcuo a~ blind a.nd ~(<c:l'ltttoil. 'They •re &Qins aaai.Mt the bea:t U\tertSts of Qu~::bcun ll!em~~t"-c... thqo •pore tile prosraa .ude i11 the l!.st few years.. tballt•-.• tbe hl>ll. member for Verdun said cattier-to Oitfct~bltkcr, l~urtc•. the Prime Minb.ter, a nd t.banls to Rbl Caoocuc ~h<lft be wu clc<:tcd to thi• l-louse in 1962. sitting in the oorl'lcr or the Ne•• lftlttiQeftttlc: l)jtrl y, He S31 there C\'<lt)' 4.ty and (Otl!lhl for t he rlahu or all C11n11di•nll, ~·itb ~ he<&.rt th•t .,. . ., 09C11 to cYc:ry· one. True. t.hcre tuve bcct1 m:.n.y dht:•ppOintmenu.. W" WQ-.tkf have e..pccted more from tb~t Orr.e~l Lfll\i!IJ!I(f At:t. ~oncthdca. tM, Ftencb euJum.l ptett~t ill C.n:ld:t ii ~aaen· iRf itJdt h is ...,.. coi.d& beyolld the ~ue ot l:a-au.acC". it a rut:llint t~ kiln-. a!id tbc dtildtce ol naA) of 011r (db'~~ chi:brM •re fiiMWt: int~td iD it.

Two )'CII,. a,ao ift Se:ptcmta. wllik I .,..., la Britiib Cd•mN. I ~mod that tbc fiF$1 fl'CfiCb dalikS (« franco­plloM 't~r~u •-ere being kt up &rOIIIP'in& lt:n sutdt:nt.t at tbc ...amc level ()I) you kaow, Mr. Speai(cr. wh.:t.l u the J)fuble:m o( tile Mini~tcr of Educatkla in Blithl ColumW11? lie Sfl~ lOO mall)' aPI>flcations: fMm an,glopbone part.n~ ~ho ~·ant their cttild r11n tole11rt1 Frenc:b. This means that tnt:lll31 Altitudes a~ chlllijliniJ. We are told tbtlt tbc. same thine I ~ h&pt~cnln& in chk11 llt.JCII :111 Toroo1o or cbcwbc:r..; •·bi<:h b: umadl'l:l Jlnce french ~c:~lll arc not avaiJable to al'l;lopho•ttt ul'llela they

TM C4fr.rlltllliDN a~ wining to PlY• But t1 prcc;tru, irt Que*' Bill 101 Pf~ftl­an an.g.lopbone «<t.teatcd IB En.a,IUh to tc.lld hls: dlildrcn tn 11 FrcDCb KhOI.ll if he- w11n11 to. Wt»t inconli•teney, M1 Speaket1

Mr. Spc;•kt r, it la with a11 4(le11 tniOO and wis.hing that the people o( QuebeC" ptlltticlputc: fully ift tbc COM1ituliOOII.I rcrorm tbat I spea.k on bc:l'lnl( of Qucbccers IU dq all tbe Qther membet.t~ i.B tbe. Quebec N11llonal ,o\~cmbly, dpcdaUy slr.u man.y member1 of thll HOI.lM doo not luulw Q~Kttee as I do. /u a mcmbtr tor lkau~tfiOI..S.bbcny, I suppurt oa ~IWf ol mv COIIISt!Wornl:* tlw f'OOI•tlooe ...,. btfcwe tht' House wiUt all iU iq&:alioet.. dtf'l(l(ft( u '' ..ay k . becttdC. I coasidc:r Wt it is .. tht i&lt«UU cl Qltc:bclocf1; ... aH Cuadiu:s.

Mr. Speaker. nct)'bod)' waau ow ComtiMioo lo be pa.triated The amcftlli111 (or,.•l• is jn.ericaUy the one: pt.SMld b)' tlte group of ei&bt U.at indudcd Qlkbcc:, wi1b • 5li&bt amendment atlo•·in1 1b11 prorirtec to <lpC ()Ut •·ith lin,oc:MI compensation ror cult\lrDI .and cd !IQIIi~.>nAI prugr.1.ms. A3 for the Charter or RiBht• 1111d Frccd1111"• ib bn)tldtr aims ate hnrdly qucsti~>~blc , 11IMI the tw·(l mllin (lobjectiOI'It ot the Q\l.::bec &Qvc:rnment eone~:rn ~:du~tiotl and nl:tnpowcJ nwbiU· ty. As (or mt. Mr. Spe:ak~:r. J do not agrte with the uatompro-­•nising auitlldc of tbc u~CfQue 8-0vetnCMot on tllot~e two points. A very Luwe 11vmbcr or my co..Utuenl.$ aarce witll me, and 1 .am now spe~~•i~t.~. tfl eMir bcbatr 1 believe llut cnry C.uc!Un i:J enthkd to r.ec&w Ms «iac:auon itt llis modwr -.•~~<•w•bt~ .. r....._

I a. abo i• fan;~~~r ol t'e ri&tM (Of all ~-~~~ to acd cmpklo)lnC81 i• ••)' q( Ollf" prori-.. or (IOIJI'$C, ..,dpqt.meol.li mo.l6 be made. u w.u tllc c .. c for NewfoondlarJd. to protect • pn;Mncc whieb 1- faODd w11b C:l~\>e 11.M:ropiO)'nxnL NobQdy 1:~ JapiMJ th11L. On b<Mh ()I)Untt;, tbc u~esque £.CWe111· mcnt .,..» im•htd to ~ugdl anteftlf•nen:ts to ease its rears and pt()(e<:-t h.s juthw!lctiolt. All we got: i ll rtuun were il'lsultJ, propt~,ganda, prO'wation and lcgnl accion bcfote the Sup~ne CoorL Well Mr. Spcakc1. •·c nre no1 Jl)i flg to wasle any more tlme!

Pcr1110n.:..lly, I («I tll:u the lln&uktle cb.uJie. <>f the rt$01•tioo w hle.h d comtnOrd., rcfcrr.:d 16 lU tM Canada Cb11Se is tllc m.lt~imu.m a-cttpubac. I C!ltltiOI hdp but tt'joicc whea I realize th::tt fi.ully drle Calllck&a Co~m;t.tioo. ud oot kai*lioa ol thO Parliament or pro-i.n.l ~t1trt: wllidJ ~ k t;h.JflJ:CXI to~ :~lldt atdtoudt~ prttl!litt, wiU~al16 eNhrinc ., • pmi!Ciph the ns)lt of an frnCIOplloac$ JM,. ,. the Dine other p!"'''i i!Ob to antnd Frtnclt sebook. aod tk right of all a.nglopftoftCt. llvi111 in Quebtc to atttfld ElatJillt scbooh. 1 thi11k thit it the l«d from • ·hi<:b C.nada wiU dC'o-clop witbitl the nc:J: t ttA'O Jc:tlc:t81 ioos--1 00 not mean tomotrov.'. Mr. Spedet- 11110 the l>ilina~;~al QQUJIIry our rorcra• thcrs had dff.arQcd nbout, nnd to whkh the C'1t3rter of Risht• iHld fredoou will tuld our i::ltllr determint1tion to fO!iter ll bcuer unclentand.it•J. dt.:tiO,vc tu~ lwotbethocxL Bccause or 1h.: u.rg.e~)' of the: tn:uter. the declsiOtl C8.ltll!Ot wait. We MIUl

.. CO\IMONS DEBATES

T'IN C'uulilvliOff "op procrauin•liaa. The time fot q.a.rtvadon a.nd diue:na:joo in thlt *"''Y is over. No-• ill tbc: time (or actiooe. We ha~ atl objec:th<c 10 rt.ae.h, v;c. will ~cb it tltit week.""" I inteltd to be here to WJIP(lft the rcso.lu tio~t btfott uJI.

16•1"·•!1 Mr. 0.• Bk•klr• (Mltilua111~ S.•t• ): Mr. Spcaket, when

I tpoke on tbls matter Jla.~ f'cbmary """ wctc: in the heat of debtee. lt wa. ~ill apparent tbat the Pl'imc Mln_lt:tcr (Mr. Tr .. dOiu) WIS pine to try Ill roroe: tiM CO!Witudon •flilat«al· 1¥ upoa the CIOIIatry with Gnb' tbe JGpport o( 1._\\ pnwieces. m-taialy not with lllc $Uppoft of the ptopk ol C.Meb.

., .... So it was u a t'C:UIIt ol debate alld ti a t"CSilll ol the

pra~urct brou.£,h1 <111 PMfiameat by t!Wt party thu C\'COUII.O)' the wlitole mauct was setllt to tbt Suprune Coun of Caoada. The Supre.me Court hxlttd at this oon~tlilutiol\ll propofial 0\'tr lhc summet, 1t did 11()11 QOmC out wilb a quick d«iiiMlfl, at was poredlc:tod. lt looked at the pro~nl <wc.r the 5tunmu and nn~o~lly .nid~ '"YOll rc:tlly h~\'C 10 bll\'C a 11'1~h"e Ol)!l ~l)tlll' of the provrn~ in order to ntal:e ..-·1141 )'<lw Me tfolnc he~ oorutiU.J!i(lnlal." This ~ult«< il'l a rtdu~l·provincl!l l con.fe(· enc., fini'Shlil& In early NO\-embcr. 1111d OOW we tm\'C the 1000td bcrorc ~u.

I 1111110 JOO 11121 the broad COOKnt._, of tile niM pt(WitiCCl no• is u ~poruru eonsusus. Fo.. uy Mtrnkr or Pattia·· ...,._ llnNi& debill<d aad oppol(d .UI •-u h.IPJ!n~l.q 011 the ~ tMt: it Wt:S eoc <OIISlltu~l a..t 1101 proptt, to aow 0f1P0M il Is 1b app;.c the ril of the people f1l C...cb. I .ay tUt •itll: re&pea to my coocf <'OIIeapa lwl't • th.• IMfc of the H011• • ·M Clll Wtdnesda)• mipt wdl ckoddc to Iliad up 1Nl op~ chk eot~rtitutioml ptd:a.c.e tllat it la no longer a liltllllferal Jllltlulac. aDd DOt wha1 wu pi'OpOIIC:Id in October ol 1980.

What wa1 JW'(Ip..~ in Oct.~ ol 1980 •nr:J wh111 U now bcro,.. thU l·lo.rroc. are t""'<» tntirt.ly diiTcrttnt ~~~all. Whac Wll.i J"'OJ)()SCd in 1980 v.•illl liQmctbina the. J•rimc Ml11ltter, in tpilc or C\'l!r)'lxldy, docidcd 10 ro~ clown thc. thfl»l$ or C:.udlaru. What is berore ~U today U the! ret'uh o1 months or hc~rl.n~ before a <:OnJ~t.itutiorutl QOOJmiuoc. t committee which, u nwmben will f"Cmt:mbcr. the Prime Mlnu:tcr did ftOt •ut l.dcvlHd ud did Mt wattt 10 bvc t!M! po.'tf\ to bw: WltMMG twoqJu bd«c it. lt 'IQS 11 cuns~it.cioft:tl coen:mhtu l.ll.ac llcard •M ftlbCC:fll$ of attire C.Ndi•-. tile luflllfec»ppod ud I.W. pcopk. •bo •a-e worritd ~--~ dbc:rimluU. 01; liw ..,. .. of tu.

TbCI ~ before •• tocby is an eetirdy c:li«~e f*t•cc bocuH h ha1 • ooMCftS.US or taiM or the te'll pro,,.h,oc.. 1 uy it ;, 011ly bectuse of the efforu of thjJ ptu1y, Ol'lly bceauw: ol the lndd'IIICIIbh: elf on& of the bOil. mc:tnbc:l' for Ycllowhctld (Mr. Ctut) th11t th~ has been possible. Thl• nution o..-·ee; • trt:at t.h:al eo thecrforu of thl! l.cmlcr o( the Oflif:iJI OPI)(IIIItlon wha tlclibotateJy, q\licd)' aad, with the anJat:II)CC. ol the. hon. mentbcr r~r PtO\'encbct (Mr. £pp), W;lj a!>le ·~ lenpre!iS upon the pN'm.iets of t bi$ country and tbe people or C.naita .. with

tbe bdp of the Supmrnc Cou11 ar~d llle leaders of tbc prtrr• it~Ce&. that tbc.y had to CCl totdhcr and form a OOtlstosu.s..

Tbuc d one problem left. and that is tba1 tbe proYini.."e of Quebc:f:.. IO!l,J ~~ (ortrt:!lli o( d1~ fmncopbOM majority or Cll.~Ud~, the ooly porOYin<)C whefe Frt:nch if the. bngu~~e of Ute majoc'hy, ill unhat)P}' and hai rcfukd through ilS premter to to 21001 "''ith tllb Ollflttl'lliU6. Th11t h1 !Qin.g to cause: at a £rt'.1t dctl or dirr.eultf,

Part or the: dirf.JCU.Ity it iJ &Oin,s lb cause 1$ t!l.e: rtStth or the auituck or tbc- Min~cr ol JIIStke (Mr. CbtC:tko). The odwr day Mt. lb'aqlloc. ~led Ill:"~ liwi a veto. Maybe it does ud maybe '' dool 11101, tMat ia does _,. do aay aood for Cuada for tile Mtebtu ol h'Mic:c., who if p.s;ppcMIII 1o be aqocia_tiog c. bdlalf ol C.aM&. eo b.qh at tht Prcmic:r ol Qu<b<c.

A great deal ol the probk:IN we have •itb lhe PrO'riDOC ol Quebec Ln brit~Cin& tblll oountry t~ttht:t a.re a rcwlt of the int~m~l workln!P of the Ubcra1 party in tbe pr<winec of Quebec. represented by Liberal members in this Hou!i0-74 of tlkm- in ~iliott 10 lhc ntajoMty party In the Natiooal 1\..st;cmbly in Quebec Chy. 11 i5 obwt tjmc:- that IAbl!l'l&l IOe.tl.lberS in tbc. Hou.te or Commol\.1 tried to bflng about a OOf'lknS'u-.\ in the l)h)vt* (I( Qucbtc in order to bring Q\le:bcc into litis .tCCIOftl. lt is a~ut lime tbcy did Mnd-hin& tu bfm¥ tile coui'IU)' together. ,.ther tlu.n bfi:naiQS their ft&bta. tbcir p:!liiKal Cll..CC:tdll llltd tbcir tqu:tbbld la tllt: province ql Quebec- oa 10 the rwiiOIYI :t«M and. i• the process.. dotroytq; Ollf co.fe:de:tltioL

We haft ~ lie tk a....:lmnt to Socl.k. 40 ol &Wl mcaMlre tbe Mllalion that there sho.kf be u opportdt)' f« complete optiq o.l by ••Y ,_inoe with tupe::et to a mauu t.h:at iaYOtYct l'irwut«. a !M~ that a pM¥ioc.e ...tUclt so opted out would be oon:lpc.NIItcd Wllefl optiii,J oot 011 I particular power to the u.me extent •• the t\~rase east of the propam acrOM the OQUntry.

Miss Jn~tt: Why 1101 ju;il Qud~t<:?

Mr. Bl~r•: M y fri(lld from Va.noouve:r a.sb . .. Wby not j uSt Qt~ebcd-The 11 11~~~rr b el\illtthii U Otlih'<"kmtr) aod Vtlhal 11.ppliu eo 0r1e ptOVin.cc mulit ape~ly to all provlnQCS.

MiM Jtw«t: NONCr-.~

Mr. BINt..r.:: Wllat ·~ 1b OM prorriltce mut •pply 10 aA ~ ~~~~~ dw A)' ... ~-. Slile SS)"S Wt betaiUC sbe ...W: lite IO wlftd 11P t.riq tltc. IWO>Gitioa lhcwy .- ..... OO.IIIfy. but &~sat • ... ,._ policy ot Ws pa.ny. nm " o­~~.ttion aM .. "' do nos hi\'C "' ~ dA·id!Od.. Clearly wbu i. -appticable 10 tile pi'0¥1~ of Quebec toJlollld be appl.cable to all pnwinoc.s.. (1\.berwU.:, 11 well not 5(")l,

An t.oa. Mrm1Mr: Wl\lltllbc.Mtl Set:tM>n IJJ?

Mr. Blubm: 1'h~.o':1~ lt n~> partieulllr problem with respect to opting out.

Mr. NySi.rotll: I ti1c on 11 point of order.

.. Novm~ber JO, 1981 • COMMONS DE.6ATES 13527

Th~t At":ti._. SJ~C'~br (M r. lt.laku): Order, piC1110f:,

Mr. Bae.abr~~: We ha~ bad opting Olll In thtt oountry for n &ung,time,

TM Actin& Spoea.kn (Mr. Bl•ker): Otder, pie~~o.e. I rocot· n.iu tbe hon. member for Yotkton-M<I\'i)Je (Mr. Nysuom) oo a point of otdcr.

Mr. Nf$ln~m: I ""'nckr if Ux bon. ow:mboc:r would answer a q~X"stjon..

Mr. IJ~11k•m: C cmainty.

Mr. Nystto•: Tbc- bon. II'IC"Jtlbtr f<M' Misgi.i$11Ugo1 S<lud• (Mr. Bknlurn) uid :~omethina ' 'ery intercstin.a. He sajd tbat wbat awli«:~ i.n Quebc~ abould apply io tbe rt.Sl of tbe country. Qucb«. is bound by Stetion Ill of the Sritillh Nun h AmerK:n Act whkb <lbliglt t~ it le> provick $ctYic" in french a.nd in £nsJi;sh fn iu legislature and cotms. J •'Otldct w·hetbe~ tbc bot1. member for Mfs.si.uausa South tbink.s On t<&do $bl.rnld be bound by Sectioo 133 and, if so, will he pobUcly call for his p~mier to bind O:nt.ario so Quebec and Ontnric> un! tn::~tc:d the umc?

Mr. Blwb.ra: The lmn. member fQf Yort.ton-Melville (Mr. N)1U011l) raise$ lt que:scion in relation toil proWem tbllt hat beell i:n e.x.i:s:1eDCe i:n tbis oouotty tor U~tne time.. l..ct me suggell to tbe hon. member tbtl t he: tl.l i!le$ it to divide the QOUntry. bec:lu:se tJIIU i3 the: PR.lJ'OSOI1 or tbe NDP. 11 is a divlsiv~ p.1tty if ~:Vet there was a d:.il-·isive pany. lis tn.cmbr:n y;·:w t tu break up l.h.is ClOU.RU)'. They want to put Fre.nc:b oo one siOc and Englisb Oft the other :side ~11d ..-.\lse a W'at.

So•e •M. Metn~IN!rt~: O h, oh!

Mr. BIMiuln~: That is their attitude~ I reoognl-tt:· the: leslal tequin:menl ror OOtb French and E,tngfi$b, and that ancr the resolution is pu!lt!d, thi$ pi"(Wision wiU apply only to New Bturuwic.k:, Quebec and Manitoba. Perhllps it .sht>uld apply to e~ry J!W"'inoc in t be country.

"UJS J ewe-tt: You just said they J.hould all be tre.:~ted ali\e.

Mr. BI('.Qkllt'll! Tbey 'A'OOJd Pf01)0$t amendrncntll t C) m.ake the situ:ttion even work .

Miss Je•tn: Y<Ju ju~t i llid d1ey 4hovld aU be aJike.

Mr. Ble•brrr. The l3ughing l<tdy ""'lid $01Y "they arc aU alike, they lln: <lll <~ like'', Yes, tbey are all ali.kc. bot they would try to make 'lbis country rnOI'e dl,·ided.

So•e boa, Me•hn: Ob, oh.!

Mr. Bk ttltam: Cettalnly sbe. is that w11 y; $be w.1nt$ «1 make ptoblems.

l.ct tl$ gq furtbet. They prop.wtd an lll)u!ndn)tn t t hat •'i.J1U id proride tbllt only Quebec .th<luld opt out. They proposed an IUI'Ietldlncnt ()( th11.1 liQM bcx:au.sc lhc)' said that If we '1\'trt

Tltt CC~UtlruiiM really c:oncttned about Qu'Cbec. Yi'C $1\wkl provide fUC.:h ~ clause On I)' for tht: ptO\•inoc or Queb«.

• (1140)

J say to you, Mt. Speaker. that it is important th;ll tbe clauU: wilh ftllpt:tl to opth•S out be the same for all provinc«. The present clause: is tbc same for all provinocs. and we liU88t'St that il be w;dened. Wuos&~ that if it •·ere ··ide~. tbcre would be: a \"Cf)' 8QOd ~-,ibili ty that the (t(Wt:rnmcnt of Quebec, or eventual!)' tbe people of Qucboc, •·ould find no diflicuJ ty in jndnin£, ~~ aeootd. As long as Section 40 Is lef\ the way it is.. the B(Wernmenl of Q~.~Cbec will 111lw:,.y$ b•~ an t:J(C\I.$C to st3)' out of tbe accord. If we do .noc change SoctiOCI 40, •-e wntinu.e to e.xaa:rtate the problem.

Tbts afternoon the minhter or $UIIe s1.1id tfw.l he • ·ould be prepared to aoocpl an opting-out c~u&e thl•l would a llow an p f{Wi110C$ c:qu~lly to OJlC QUI uf ~meodmenLJ aDd be c:Qntpc:~~Snt• ed. If th<: NDP were really interested in maldnc this oot'lstitu­tk;naJ pu~agc wOrk, why would tbey not go aJo ng • ·ith that? lf tbey were. they woukl support the member i'or PI'Q\o-cncbet and t.he Uader of the. Olficial Opposition.

In m)· opinion. thee J11 ooly o..e concch·abl.e problem in thi11 package a nd tbat i* th:tt t here is no quid pro quo. if you like. fur Quebec's bll \'( a \'t'IO. If the~ 'ilt't rt tlt:u· oonapcntoadon for opting 011t, there would be oo w;•y (<K ;•ny Quebec goorcrn­tnctn to say it is not protected. In fuel, no ptO\'in«: which has agreed to the :.ccord ()()u.Jd Object, because tJte clf~Ct Of Lhe aOKnc!OKn1 tly 1h~ Jm. mm1Wr f.,.r PNv~nc;b~ g t9 ~t<:n'.l provincial rights rather than to restrict l.bem. Therefore, it is d t llr that no province. • ·bleb ~lgned lbc. atoord would 6bjttt to the broadening or Section 40. tr the <tmenclmcnt by tbe membet for Pro~~DCber w>tre accepted. it woo!d be vtrtt14lly impassible f()f Quebee not t<> j<>in in Cl;e att()cd, and t.he only obj~ion • 'Oilld come from tbe fcd~al p~rnmenl. a fc:det aJ g~-erurnent whjc.h 'll'IUtts to catty on the 'o\'M in t he province of Quebec; to the detriment ola ll Canada.

I aay that the ameadment by tbe boo. member ror Provencb· er ttlullt be ll,Pi:ed t<> because all the proviDCes which signed the ~~ocoxd will ac~:~;p1 it, and U t~ ptU\'itKc$ il.Ctepl it, Quebec • •ill have oo logical. or even iUogic:al, reason to s;ay to th..;: people ol Quebec th2t they ba"'e-beta butt b-y tbe a.'(lruaitu• UonaJ amendment lt wiiJ ba\'C- no logicnl Wjcctioa 10 the Coll$titutioo.

The-Qnly IPlO wltQ might b;: butt ~re thOk: v.ho intl:iilt tbnt federal power should be expaoded. li tbat the view of the govttnmtot? The ttlinistet ol state has said tll3t be h:u no objection to compensatioo on an optillJ-oul bu..is. Surety we can pass Wt anlendn'letH and make it virtullil)' i.mpos.1ible for tile Premier of Quebec to sil·e tmy 'fl'ltid ren.w n r;~ot_ to so <1lona ••itb tbe accord.

I would like to deal now wilb the mattct!l before w; oooe«l'l· ing: tbe C harttt of Right$ and freedao~S. In my office ip the HoulioC or CommoBS and in my QQflstiti.ICncy o:ffi-ce- I ba\•e a (tamed C<'lf'!)' of Jobo OtefenOO.Ictt's Bill or Rig~ts. In a way, that Bill ()( Ris.ht$ ul tc,wl n a.ov~rnment to <:blln.ge or alter ritbts if i1 .s:pccifkaJI)' posses a statute to e11.empt a particular

.. 13$28 COMMONS DEBATES Novembet JO. 19$ 1

Th(f C(HJJti tuliOff item from the DiU of Rights. That Bill of Rig.hu is lool::OO upon proudly by n\)' eonst.iu.se:nu. and ()then who come to my ofr~<:t as ~n (mPQrtant tborler of their rights. even thou.gb in tbat Bi.IJ of Rights Parliament metvtd dte right 10 rts.triet rights by specific amendment in 3 purticul~r .50Cli<m of d1e 41tJ I11te. Tt.e c:Mrter bcfQfe U$ now nJJows tbe same restriction on rights. h pr<.Wides for oe &0\>ernmcot to OY<:rtide socue basic righu on a five-year basis. That means th:H the palili<::al (ll'()ttl$- n<ll the judge$-will determine whue riiJ!Is re<~Jiy 5t.and. h is perhaps more restrictive than t he Diefenba.ker Bill of Rights in temu ol the ability ol P.tu li3mt rll llr legislature<~ IC) l11te:r. O()nti"QI or vilry righl$.

h ha$ been .wae:ct;tcd that lbc "notwithstanding Section 33'' i5 not a good ooe. I suggest that • hi lc I urn, not as bappy;u I nllght be with "'nol•j~bstuding' ' S«tions, tbete is esset~tia lly ao di.N'erenc:e bctwctn tb.'ll "004whhsundins" section and clauses in tbe Dide•lba.ker Hill q( l.tigbt.$. Tbcrdorc. when people. uy tb;1t they will not support this ch3ner or rig.hts beatuK or S«tion 3J, t hey s-IW)t!Jd rad the i)ic:fcnbu.l(er Hill or Rights.

I am proud of tbe. Dlefenbaker Rnl q( R)ght.s. h .h<ls Oowing language • •hkb ~J>peJ& IS to people, Perhaps one of the difrrcul­tits • ·ith t he proposa1 whjch ts bcfo~ us is- that the-IAn&ua.,se could be beuer. pctha.p! more p!>!tic.

Howt'\otr, thi:t Cbu.rter of R.igbts and Frccdoms is wh~u John Oiereobaker •'OOJd bave liked fO l~.:~ve st:t n entrench~ in l)ur Con~ti tution. He trkd to gi:t lJIP~VYA I for $()methi.Jle: like this, but found he ~:ould not. After mo:e tbaJl a year. we m.ay '4'tiJ be 11.ble tO entn:meb basic ri.ghi.S" i~ Otlr Consdtution, ri$:hl$ which ate muc.b IJl ·e tbe- right11 in t~ Oi.efenOO.ker BiiJ or Righu.

I !l.m conoerncd that there U nQC enough pr<ltCC::tioo in the charter oow before u.s ror the rights of tbe famiJy. 1t eon<:erM me that oo Ft iday the Houst dtfetl ted an tlmend.ment which w·ould h:avc m:~de it de011r tlwt only ParliJiruen' eo\dd legisla.te with r~ to the que$tioo or abortion. I bcliC\'e we made a m.isu ke in thst re5'pt<:L

I do not tbinl.: dwt tbe charter as it i~ preveJ~Is P.uli11.ment from i!Cgislatiog on tbe. matter of abortion. but there is a mattet which should httve been made Lic:er. I v.>hu.ld h~~ betn happier had tbe right to life or the unbom been protected ill t.he charter. Petbap~ it will be tbe subject of al'l afnc•wlln4!ill scnne time i.n t.he fut"rc.

I am troubled tbat tbc right to ptot«tion ol property is not In t.he charter. I wouJd like to h~ve ~:ee:n 0~ proted.ion of 1be riabt tq property .so i ' CIJ.nnot be taken nway without due proc:CM or law.

• I)Uii)

We sdll btl ''e-~r Bill ol Rights in d•~ pi'O'Io'it~.:c from wbieb I OOI'Ile. That Bill Q( Rigbtil i$: in pL1oe, And the right tO own prope;tt)' i$ protC~;tcd by the Bill of Rights of that ptO\'inoe. If 'A'(! had worked t1 JiuJe. looge:r. perhapl •·e might lt3~'"e' bte.n ;~blc to ent.rw eh tbc right. 'o qwo property in thi.s Con$.ti tution. I "«)' mueb appr«iatc the position of tbe Prime Mini$ter when he ia.JS that \lie ba,-c. worked l<lng On tlt!s tnauet and that

•'t should now appr<'Yt'e the Comtitution and pattia te it from E.rlaland witb nn amendin.& formula, but witb that amending formula and in tbe upcoming di.scus~oM perbapt; "''e can entrende the right to bold pr<lpc:rty aOO not Jta,-e it taken awa)' wi~hO\ll d\le proct$5 or l~w. I tbink thlll b pC'~AAible.

( t hink it is possible to make otber changes tba' hon. members from time to time ba"'e requested. Tbcte Jta,·e been valid S'u_@gestJo~. but il i!l about time l>()ant:whe~ in t.he-.'Our.,e of things tbllt •·e moved witb • •bal we hay;: doDC $0 far. finished ~~obat """'C h3ve •'Orkcd oct and left othct thinv wltjch must be. worked <In to the ne:c1 NX~nd of di&e\lM~. to the next round of negociatioos .and to tbe oe:tt round of debate, ~use if we ddr.ue ~nd d~btl te t1nd dtbtl te, we •·Ill ttt'i"~r aooort1plis.h anything.

When ,..e JXl~ ~l<at ute~; i.n this plaQC, many of \Ill h11.ve idee.s wbieb would improve them. but we pass them DC~-crtbcl css., not boc!luse "''~ tbi11k the}" ar~ perrtet but because-they are. stepl in the di.rcctic)p i11 whicb W'C want to go, In the c:wr.K or h\lman work nothing is .absolutely perfect. so w·hilc under Section 33 ti8llts might be curt~ik:d, while there: an: no p~rl)' ri,&hl$ and wltile the rigltlll o( lbe unborn are noc protee:ted, tbi\ Cbt11ter of Rig.hts a•ld Freedoms is a pretty good cffott. 1t m11y l)l)t be perfect. 1t i~ .. ~ perfect, but ndtht t :are -·t pe~fect, Wjj: ~.houkl move ahead at tbis time &~:~ that ,..e will bave an oppottunily to impi\We as ""'e go. Howe~-cr. let us IM>W tl)C)I.'<' il.h~d b«.;eusc. it i!l time to tnO\"C ahead. We h.:u-c b:ed full di!le\l~n . We ha~ b d lone; committee bt$tinss. We oow have the ag;rcemeltt or tt iM: of the ICtl provinces. That it1 its-tlf i$ evidence. of m:~i1fve C<lftkmus. We have-nUIS$ivt oon.'lc-n.o~u$ on what we prcsCJilly have, and while it mts,ht be thal l)()nc of us are absolutely satisfied wid1 what we J\tl\•c., 'A't. ate all genc!f;~ lly s:atit~tied . il would be WtW~S far liOIUMne l() YQCc: apins.t tbi& m<atter because or dissatjsr<~ction witb one hem or t'olo"O items. Tbooc who .night think that to \'Ote aga.ins• thit rt«~lu ti(ln ~to \'Oh.· ng;,~ins.t the f)rime M/nistet-tlnd if it wc.n: tbere just to do lbat. I would do it myself-.re "'TOng. They t11e wroog boctlu.se the piCbtt before us is- DO lon.gcr the t:nuntttiun of the !?rime Min.i11tcr. Ue mo~y h:wi: been the drivillJ.I, fon:c behind putting this rc:solutio11 bef«e Parljament but, tlf\er all. dl(: g<WeT•une-~• t alwtlys ~s the right to irtuodu<:e:. !cgi:sl;lli(ln :and bring it (orw:t!d. H~·ever, what i$ befOre \Ill today is enlircfy different lrom -u.•hat tbe. Prime Ministct lM-I)ugl,l before. us. On the questi<ln or am.t!~ment aJo..e, bem. memben: on chis $Hk will remember o non·-eonfHknoc motion ""'< proposc:d. tha t tbc Con«itutjon ol CaBada be puriated • ·ith the VanoouV'er amendin& f<lrmuJa. Th~t is eo<:tly wbtlt '>''e have. We will noQ'Ito' htlve palliAtion o( the Coostit\lliun, the British Notth Amcri~ Ac.. afi« 114 }'CON witb tbe YtUlOOU· ve-r U)nlli.'l!SUS :t:t an ~mending: formula.

Mr. Mc0cr• i4: Think or :tll thc time y,o wooJd have t:an:d i.f the)· had Listened to us.

Mr. Blu lutrea: My han. fri~nd Stl y'S. '"Think of all the:. tinll." we ""'OOid have Sil\'cd if they had listC'Jled tq l.ls:· They did listetlltl us.

Mr. M c:Dr:mtid: lt tu<'lk: tht:m a ~>e:er.

.. November 30. 19&1 COMMONS DEBATES I J.5·29

M.r. Blt:ltka.m: U we t~~nal y.se the ooment of the pGdcage before UJ, we, find dlat to a large tJ.ttttt tbo pacta~ was tra.Oed by mctnbeN of my !"l'rly ~iuing in 1he OOO$tihltion<!J otwnm.iuec, mak.in.s $-UUC.Stions in debate and. thtou.g.h their premiers, n<:gO(iati.ng -.·ith the Prime Mini$h::r :lt (ed~r.tl pro­' 'indal ooofuenoet. W e have bad a .ercat input into what is ht:re. Indeed, uJl mcmbc:r.s of the Hw11e had an input. This is not a package ham.ncn::d through by an ;irr~nt Pl"in-.c Ministl"t, ahh..,ugb l:ti:s iosit>teote ba.s bocn important to CnnAda bcatuse, ..,,itbooot bis i!Ul.sl tooc, we perllllp$ would ~:~ot !la'~ oomc this far.

An -.. Me• '-: !tight oo.

Mr. 81-rD:k.ar•: lt is import:e.nl thut •'<: M a Mtioo establis.lt l'inlllly wr totaJ sov«~ignt)\ No ITYIU~ how· we look at it and 00 n·umer bow 'A'C spc.ak Otll, it tu;; alw.ay.s bc;.en o problem for ~11 of u!l when .speaking to peoplt.' from other Oc.KJntJies and when being asked bow .,.'C :tmend our Coostitution. We have. had to s:ty that we pus a j.I.:Uute and .send it otr lo Crcat Brilllln, 11nd they robber-stJ~mp it. MAybe the)' do and maybe they do oot. but what kind of sovereignty i:s it for a nation not IO be abJe.to ;•melld itti own Constitution on its own'?

The. n:!si)Jucion bef«e us allows tbe amendme nl h> tlle 8riti.sb North AmetK:a A;:t to> be renamed the Canada Act by us in Cattttda, wilb "-" amending formula ~lliltg for lJ•e cometll .and suppott of SC\'ctl pro.,.·irw:e:s: and tbill 1 l_ou$e. Tbat is "'" important &-tcp fotward in the $0\'cteignl)' or tfljs oation. Tbcte are tJ10se who wme from otbcr lands who, altbo<USh pe:rhap&: noe born of British l1eritll&f.\ c-.:tnl)l)t .~y that they inherited rights. as f ~Y I ll;we. My right$ go back to the time of tbc. llobSIJOI Cu.rla. There are people who c.~ne frQm L·n•dt~ where il tres:t in tbe. tntddle t>r tbe nis.ht is oot uncommon. Tbcte tl i'C pe.ople "''ho come from lands w-here the right to ~tand up and speak otiC's miod is unki'M)wn, Th~ ~:~re people vobo oonle fto1n land:<! .,.·here eltereiJ:in3 the right to !'Cl t~ t<:~her In l;u-ge s roups i,s illceal :Uid t~(etcising the right to prinl wbllt they want 10 print or eo 11ped:. ~11 aOO say what tbcy want to say fltnds Chem io tbe gula,g. Su~b people ask. and bllvC- Illwa>11.:~itkcd, v.·hcre it~)'$ .,..e in

Caoad:ol tlln do tbcf.c fi!i1l1JS, nnd I ba,·c pointed to tbe DiU of Right~>. Elul these tigbts were noc entre-nched. Thi.s charter entrem:::bes those rights, a nd while """'e of \IS may say tb;u •·e hh -e these' rigl:lt:s :.nd do not need to bave the-m in writing,. at IC'4'1$t "''C ~o say to our oonstituentll, Ul ourser ... et und tn (lur ~bi.ldren tb:'tt y;~ ha ... e .-igltt$. We can .say we have the right to mO\'e about t ltis COUilU)' rred)'• We Cllll leave tbES CX'IIJntry freely if we ~·ant to. We c:ln S~;ay wb;ll we .,.uot. We ~n write .,.•bat wo wanL Wt: c.-n think what we wanL We eao 88ther tOgether .,.·here we wanl. TI1ose rig:~ts must ~ e.xPf""C*$Cd. "they are C..(presscd in tbi~ cb.:arler, nlld I wi.IJ be proud when I can lut18 thill d uner on C3le '<''8.11 in my const.itUenc)' orrtee £nd !iC:nd il to my cotl5£illt~nli. becatlle it b ilbout time 'tii'C .had 1hese right~ rntreJM;hcd i.n law, Tbe)' are imperreet. perhsps.. but they lire emrencbccl: {Of aJI Calltldillns..

PROCEEDINGS ON ADJOURNMENT MOTION

I English I A motion to adjouro the Hotue under Stu.nc.!int Order 40

deemed 10 lu'-t bttn n'IO\'i:d.

ADMINISTRA1"10 N O F J USnCE- RE\ ' IE'A' O F •tAI><() .... T~Y SOPt:lt\'l.'HON POI.ICY. (fll (lf'ERATIO~ Of SYSl'l!'-1

Ho•. Elultr M. MaeJCay (Ce1Utal No•a): Mr. Speaker, 11. few d..1y$ ago I r;d$Cd :. que$tian .,.;th the Solicitor Cenend ( Mr. Kaplan) oonoerning tbe pra"tce OT t be metbod known as mandatory supervision whjch forms pari of our so-called ptl)al ref<wm thcie da)'ll.

Tbe Soli-citor General re.:ogniud the problems inherent in 1hit area. AI that 1l:me heuid he bad asl:ed for a dei)Jirtment.:ll sttl'dy 10 be. QOOdudcd bcc;.1U$C be wu~ din•listltd wilb 1be concepcs. He realized that sbor1ly al'l« ;aswming bis portfolio. He :.llid ~t recd\'ed ;l $ludy in Jul)", eirculatt.od it through t.he ~riminliJ j11.$Hce C01t$tituenq- 11.nd woukl •·;~i l until tbe end of Ol."'tobet. The•t be hoped to be abfe 10 go to cabinet and do ~omething about tl:li~ in a few mhnt.hs.

Wilh all respewc. I ,say to Ill)' coUea.g-ue th: Solicitor General. that is not 3ood enough. We ha11e seen a great dt:aJ or obfull<:ation n!Mf delay from thii mit1i:lter Q()( t)lll)' it1 thU C;uc 001 with res~' to ri3hts on bebaJf or tbe RCMP • .a commit ­met~t hega''t in l980.

Comin& ~ck to t.h.ill q~XSlion o( ms.nd~tory supervision., it hu created a great deal of inter~t. particularly since the ntin1tter :~.nd I discussed i1 it1 tbc HollSC. Socloloei.ttil. crimloologillt.s, jurist.; nnd peop)t weJI 11tqu1Li.ntcd 'Jii th the problems have COlltscted me and. r am sure. n.cmbcrs o(li'IQSlt~.

The C<L$C$ wbieb I cited, one oo tbe west cw.sl illnd one on the-east OOilSI, are only two of many. Tbete-was a partieu~tly vi(llc., t nnd l t~~Sic murdu ()f ;, liuk: girJ in Kinpton nol k>ni ago. I wi.slt eo quote rrom a current cdWon of d1e Halifax Chron.idr·H~FDid, one of C.an:tda's ycat ne.,.spapcrl. U indi· c:alC$ unde.r the bc:td fjJie tmnner "Two l;lenlen<:ed ror crim~ c::ommiucd during supervision•· as fol~s;

Tbo: p tolll(o q£ ~· Q.lom!liUi <l$ <111'1:11~ Wllik C)IO nulld~I<XY -"•JI"roioi(o. - im.oc_, ill tk H11lifu 11-..(I.I" U

Thjs is a recent issue of the ne'<'ospapcr. h only Ulldcrline.s­thc difficultiC$ th:l t will tJ.!. faced by att inn01.~1U public \lntil $1JCh time as the Soticitor Genc:t~~.l and his ClQfle.1J1.11C$ ~ome to grips .,.·jth 1bc ncc:essity of doing something to change tJt.t e~isdng prll ttiL-e. I rec:ttltJ)' retei ... ed :. l>ellC1' fran• 31'1 eminent socioJoJist who indicated to me that hi$ te:~eilln:h on the sssessmcot of d.at1gerousness. and I quote from bis: letter: --<n\'1 dK pt:R li: )"aalo SIIUW.S tb&t llf S9!iii!Qr <J\'!1fP1 t~nol hi' IUtfr •rt· ~oll!et '"l"Ofl.t 111 ~""'"'"' chu d;~11~roounw ~~~1>(1( bo ptfdim4. A <1e1>1IIN ~,;,,..,;,unlOII iJI d +e OIJOl CIIJt ~ I - «U;;oill, Pf(l'oldt llll~ V<ltklll'l: Ill .....

"'"'~' ~ftl'ili(lli;